[Z06] C5 Z06 Nurburgring Lap times?
10-26-2007, 08:30 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
More horsepower, better suspension, and maybe a better driver..
I think that 7:42 was a C6 Z06, with 500 HP.
The 2004 Z06 may have been the first to break the 8 minute mark.
Also, some times are standing start, and some are flying start.
I think that 7:42 was a C6 Z06, with 500 HP.
The 2004 Z06 may have been the first to break the 8 minute mark.
Also, some times are standing start, and some are flying start.
Last edited by TEXHAWK0; 10-26-2007 at 09:01 PM.
10-26-2007, 08:43 PM
#6
Team Owner
Wikipedia used to list the C5Z06 at 7:56, but they took it down for some reason. Judging by the compitition, it's a really good time but reasonable. I could probably run 8:50 on my first lap. I would like to know the circumstances of the 7:56 time.
10-26-2007, 09:48 PM
#7
Cruising
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Z06 suspensions were revised to improve cornering control without ride quality sacrifice. Changes included refined shock absorber valving, stiffer upper control-arm bushings, and softer rear anti-roll bar bushings. Perected at Germany's Nurburgring racetrack, the 2004 Z06 was able to break the 8-minute-per-lap barrier, an unofficial benchmark for supercars. (that came out of the corvette black book )
10-26-2007, 10:07 PM
#8
Tech Contributor
Z06 suspensions were revised to improve cornering control without ride quality sacrifice. Changes included refined shock absorber valving, stiffer upper control-arm bushings, and softer rear anti-roll bar bushings. Perected at Germany's Nurburgring racetrack, the 2004 Z06 was able to break the 8-minute-per-lap barrier, an unofficial benchmark for supercars. (that came out of the corvette black book )
Toque
10-26-2007, 10:28 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
This is why every time the question comes up about whether to get Bilstein Sports, C6 Z06 shocks, or C5 Z06 (2004 version). I always say get the 04 Z06 shocks if your primary motivation is handling. I swapped out the 02 Z06 shocks for the 04 Z06 shocks. The difference is most definitely noticeable. More noticeable than what you will see with the bushing change they made.
I could have swore they also changed the rear leaf spring. Small but subtle change. Like 50lbs of spring rate difference. Then again my memory isn't what it used to be...
I'm not sure what type of alignment they used, whether they played with the ride height, and corner weighting. I don't believe they stated exactly what they tweaked in that area.
I could have swore they also changed the rear leaf spring. Small but subtle change. Like 50lbs of spring rate difference. Then again my memory isn't what it used to be...
I'm not sure what type of alignment they used, whether they played with the ride height, and corner weighting. I don't believe they stated exactly what they tweaked in that area.
10-27-2007, 12:18 AM
#11
Drifting
Incorrect, not 2002 or 2003. For 2004 Z06 suspensions were revised to improve cornering control without ride quality sacrifice. Changes included refined shock absorber valving, stiffer upper control-arm bushings, and softer rear anti-roll bar bushings.
All 2004 Z06 Corvettes will benefit from the continual pursuit of performance enhancements that have characterized the C5 era. The enhancements for 2004 are subtle in terms of physical parts, but significant in terms of the car's performance and feel. GM engineers have refined the Z06's shock damping characteristics to provide improved handling in the most challenging conditions, while maintaining good ride control for the demands of daily driving. These refinements are a result of extensive testing and development, including several high-speed test sessions at Germany's famed Nurburgring circuit. Corvette Z06 is one of only a precious few cars to have broken the 8-minute barrier for lap times at Nurburgring. Corvette testing at Nurburgring isn't just about raw speed, as the Z06 provides plenty of that. Engineers gathered important learning on tuning the chassis to enhance the poise, confidence and smoothness of response, attributes that are of great importance under the severe demands of a 14-mile course that has approximately 170 turns and virtually constant elevation changes.
All 2004 Z06 Corvettes will benefit from the continual pursuit of performance enhancements that have characterized the C5 era. The enhancements for 2004 are subtle in terms of physical parts, but significant in terms of the car's performance and feel. GM engineers have refined the Z06's shock damping characteristics to provide improved handling in the most challenging conditions, while maintaining good ride control for the demands of daily driving. These refinements are a result of extensive testing and development, including several high-speed test sessions at Germany's famed Nurburgring circuit. Corvette Z06 is one of only a precious few cars to have broken the 8-minute barrier for lap times at Nurburgring. Corvette testing at Nurburgring isn't just about raw speed, as the Z06 provides plenty of that. Engineers gathered important learning on tuning the chassis to enhance the poise, confidence and smoothness of response, attributes that are of great importance under the severe demands of a 14-mile course that has approximately 170 turns and virtually constant elevation changes.
10-27-2007, 12:39 AM
#12
Team Owner
This is why every time the question comes up about whether to get Bilstein Sports, C6 Z06 shocks, or C5 Z06 (2004 version). I always say get the 04 Z06 shocks if your primary motivation is handling. I swapped out the 02 Z06 shocks for the 04 Z06 shocks. The difference is most definitely noticeable. More noticeable than what you will see with the bushing change they made.
I could have swore they also changed the rear leaf spring. Small but subtle change. Like 50lbs of spring rate difference. Then again my memory isn't what it used to be...
I'm not sure what type of alignment they used, whether they played with the ride height, and corner weighting. I don't believe they stated exactly what they tweaked in that area.
I could have swore they also changed the rear leaf spring. Small but subtle change. Like 50lbs of spring rate difference. Then again my memory isn't what it used to be...
I'm not sure what type of alignment they used, whether they played with the ride height, and corner weighting. I don't believe they stated exactly what they tweaked in that area.
Okay, but do you know that the Bilstiens do not improve handling even more, only at a cost of ride quality over the '04s? I think they are stiffer. So better cornering and worse ride is possible.
10-27-2007, 12:44 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
2 things about manufacturer based ultimate lap times at the Nurburgring Nordschleiffe:
1. All timed laps are flying laps to the best of my knowledge.
2. A complete lap isn't really a complete lap, as about 200m of the track doesn't count towards it:
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/...Nm_9e0429c.png
I learn something new about the Nurburgring everyday it seems.
1. All timed laps are flying laps to the best of my knowledge.
2. A complete lap isn't really a complete lap, as about 200m of the track doesn't count towards it:
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/...Nm_9e0429c.png
I learn something new about the Nurburgring everyday it seems.
Last edited by Steve Theodore; 10-27-2007 at 11:18 AM.
10-27-2007, 01:43 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
Incorrect, not 2002 or 2003. For 2004 Z06 suspensions were revised to improve cornering control without ride quality sacrifice. Changes included refined shock absorber valving, stiffer upper control-arm bushings, and softer rear anti-roll bar bushings.
All 2004 Z06 Corvettes will benefit from the continual pursuit of performance enhancements that have characterized the C5 era. The enhancements for 2004 are subtle in terms of physical parts, but significant in terms of the car's performance and feel. GM engineers have refined the Z06's shock damping characteristics to provide improved handling in the most challenging conditions, while maintaining good ride control for the demands of daily driving. These refinements are a result of extensive testing and development, including several high-speed test sessions at Germany's famed Nurburgring circuit. Corvette Z06 is one of only a precious few cars to have broken the 8-minute barrier for lap times at Nurburgring. Corvette testing at Nurburgring isn't just about raw speed, as the Z06 provides plenty of that. Engineers gathered important learning on tuning the chassis to enhance the poise, confidence and smoothness of response, attributes that are of great importance under the severe demands of a 14-mile course that has approximately 170 turns and virtually constant elevation changes.
All 2004 Z06 Corvettes will benefit from the continual pursuit of performance enhancements that have characterized the C5 era. The enhancements for 2004 are subtle in terms of physical parts, but significant in terms of the car's performance and feel. GM engineers have refined the Z06's shock damping characteristics to provide improved handling in the most challenging conditions, while maintaining good ride control for the demands of daily driving. These refinements are a result of extensive testing and development, including several high-speed test sessions at Germany's famed Nurburgring circuit. Corvette Z06 is one of only a precious few cars to have broken the 8-minute barrier for lap times at Nurburgring. Corvette testing at Nurburgring isn't just about raw speed, as the Z06 provides plenty of that. Engineers gathered important learning on tuning the chassis to enhance the poise, confidence and smoothness of response, attributes that are of great importance under the severe demands of a 14-mile course that has approximately 170 turns and virtually constant elevation changes.
10-27-2007, 08:34 AM
#15
Melting Slicks
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Without copying and pasting from wikipedia or corvetteactioncenter, can tell you that there would not be a measurable difference at 'The Ring' between an 02/03 and 04 Z06 because the shocks were tuned 10% stiffer.
Please, think a little bit here.
2004 Z06 - 7:56
2006 C6 Z06, with 100 MORE HP, less weight, and a better suspension - 7:42.
That's only 14 seconds.
Once you are near the 8 sec mark, it takes alot to shave off time. I think it's safe to say that pretty much all of that 14 secs is due to the additional 100 HP.
So now we have the 02/03, which is essentially the same as an 04. Do you really think it's lap times would be any different with the same exact motor, HP, weight, spring rates, but a simple 10% change in damping rate? Of course not. I'll even step back to the 01 Z06. Even with 20 less HP, I'd bet it would still be close to the 8 sec mark with the same driver.
Maybe I'll put '04 Z06 shocks on my old Mustang and pull 10-sec quarter mile times since they seem to be the epitome of supercar performance.
Last edited by Ryan L; 10-27-2007 at 08:36 AM.
10-27-2007, 09:00 AM
#16
Safety Car
Let me guess, the Z16 will be even faster than a C6 Z06 because the hood is 10 lbs lighter.
Without copying and pasting from wikipedia or corvetteactioncenter, can tell you that there would not be a measurable difference at 'The Ring' between an 02/03 and 04 Z06 because the shocks were tuned 10% stiffer.
Please, think a little bit here.
2004 Z06 - 7:56
2006 C6 Z06, with 100 MORE HP, less weight, and a better suspension - 7:42.
That's only 14 seconds.
Once you are near the 8 sec mark, it takes alot to shave off time. I think it's safe to say that pretty much all of that 14 secs is due to the additional 100 HP.
So now we have the 02/03, which is essentially the same as an 04. Do you really think it's lap times would be any different with the same exact motor, HP, weight, spring rates, but a simple 10% change in damping rate? Of course not. I'll even step back to the 01 Z06. Even with 20 less HP, I'd bet it would still be close to the 8 sec mark with the same driver.
Maybe I'll put '04 Z06 shocks on my old Mustang and pull 10-sec quarter mile times since they seem to be the epitome of supercar performance.
Without copying and pasting from wikipedia or corvetteactioncenter, can tell you that there would not be a measurable difference at 'The Ring' between an 02/03 and 04 Z06 because the shocks were tuned 10% stiffer.
Please, think a little bit here.
2004 Z06 - 7:56
2006 C6 Z06, with 100 MORE HP, less weight, and a better suspension - 7:42.
That's only 14 seconds.
Once you are near the 8 sec mark, it takes alot to shave off time. I think it's safe to say that pretty much all of that 14 secs is due to the additional 100 HP.
So now we have the 02/03, which is essentially the same as an 04. Do you really think it's lap times would be any different with the same exact motor, HP, weight, spring rates, but a simple 10% change in damping rate? Of course not. I'll even step back to the 01 Z06. Even with 20 less HP, I'd bet it would still be close to the 8 sec mark with the same driver.
Maybe I'll put '04 Z06 shocks on my old Mustang and pull 10-sec quarter mile times since they seem to be the epitome of supercar performance.
the Nordschleife (Northern Loop) is 13.7 MILES in length (22km) so, yes, shocks, vehicle weight, and HP do make a BIG difference ... The Nuburgring is a road course (literally) ... not a "drag strip".
Last edited by BlackZ06; 10-27-2007 at 09:04 AM.
10-27-2007, 09:15 AM
#17
Melting Slicks
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10-27-2007, 09:46 AM
#18
Safety Car
..... with the 2004 Z06 shocks the car feels as if the wheels are firmly attached ... I can go through that same corner AT LEAST 5 mph faster with the 04 shocks, and then there is a long straight run after the corner so I have at least a 5 mph advantage all down the straight too .... makes a BIG difference to lap time.Same thing at the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, I can get through the corners and down to turn 9 significantly faster with the 04 shocks just because the car feels much more "settled" on the suspension, giving me a much better SOTP feel for the cars handling.
10-27-2007, 10:27 AM
#19
Drifting
The 04 shocks may not cure cancer ... but they are significantly better than the prior Z06 shocks. Where you will feel the difference the most is in turns where the car's suspension is unloaded ..... that is, a turn at the top of a hill. A specific example ..... Buttonwillow Raceway turn "Lost Hill" (also known as "Space Mountain") ... as you are cornering you go up a steep incline and the corner continues as you crest the "hill" and continues down the other side. With my ZO6 2001 shocks the car feels as if it is "floating" above the wheels as you crest the hill and drop down the other side .... ..... with the 2004 Z06 shocks the car feels as if the wheels are firmly attached ... I can go through that same corner AT LEAST 5 mph faster with the 04 shocks, and then there is a long straight run after the corner so I have at least a 5 mph advantage all down the straight too .... makes a BIG difference to lap time.
Same thing at the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, I can get through the corners and down to turn 9 significantly faster with the 04 shocks just because the car feels much more "settled" on the suspension, giving me a much better SOTP feel for the cars handling.
..... with the 2004 Z06 shocks the car feels as if the wheels are firmly attached ... I can go through that same corner AT LEAST 5 mph faster with the 04 shocks, and then there is a long straight run after the corner so I have at least a 5 mph advantage all down the straight too .... makes a BIG difference to lap time.Same thing at the "Corkscrew" at Laguna Seca, I can get through the corners and down to turn 9 significantly faster with the 04 shocks just because the car feels much more "settled" on the suspension, giving me a much better SOTP feel for the cars handling.
Wow Ryan,
That sounds like first hand seat of the pants information backed up with actual mph gains. Or are you going to refer to this as another cut and paste job.
Contrary to your opinion cars do get refined from year to year and every little refinement makes the car a little better. I am not saying that the 2004 Z06 is head and shoulders better than the 2002-03 but there is documented evidence that the suspension changes did improve the car for 2004. And the 10lb weight loss on the carbon fiber hood of the Z16 isn't a huge number it is still a loss. The real point of making that hood, as I have heard it, was as a test bed to find the best way to produce carbon fiber panels for the C6 Z06.
10-27-2007, 10:56 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
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The changes, while being postive, are minimal between the models (as proven in the copy/paste above). People on this forum are obsessed with the cars they paid money for and love to pick everything apart to somehow get the 'one-up' on the next guy to make them feel better about their purchase. The fact of the matter is that there are too many variables to say A is better than B when the cars are so perfectly matched. For 100% of people outside this forum, they will be safe to say that they are the same and the 7:56 time can be quoted for the cars.
If you are still not convinced, read my post above about the C6 Z06 times. If 100hp can only net 14 secs, I'm sure only a 10% damping change in a shock will net much less than 1 sec (aka, immeasurable).