bernrex

The CERV and ASTRO vettes look freakish. I see why they didn't make the cut.

We now have some awesome mid-engine body designs on paper ... that should get made.

1991Z07

I didn't think the CERV III looked bad at all...





And they actually put a good motor in it too!!!

A twin-turbo LT5 AWD

http://www.supercars.net/cars/316.html

Would have everything else on the road in the day!

But you are right...with the latest CAD tools and knowledge gained from other manufacturers, they can design something that looks even better...

But the Corvette "purists" will still whine that it isn't a "Vette".

bernrex

The CERV 3 had a bubble-shaped top and a long, pointed rear ... that would of fallen on its face with vette public .... even with its turbo'ed power plant.

But, thats the past ... the future will soon be here. And I'm excited about some of the photoshops/drawings getting posted. Styling to match performance .....

1991Z07

It wasn't a flop...they priced it at $345,000 and nobody wanted to pay the price.

Add the dealer "market adjustments" and they were selling for a cool $1/2 million.

Same thing can be said about the Ford GT...the dealers killed the production of that car from their greed. If they would have been happy with a $10k mark-up (not the $100k+ they were demanding) Ford would still be making them.

I wish GM and other manufacturers would learn from Ferrari...you buck their system and they stop your allocation. The special cars can't even be "purchased"...they lease them to you with a buy-out at the end to keep speculators from buying and then selling for huge profits right away. (And IF they get wind of this from a private owner you don't get the invitation on the next special car).

I believe in free enterprise...I work with car dealers every day. I don't fault them to make a profit...but huge mark-ups that stall or ultimately kill the building of a great car should be criminal (IMHO).

Hell, almost every manufacturer builds in a 3% profit in the price of the car (AKA dealer hold-back), so no matter what they sell it for, they get 3% of the MSRP for that car back from the manufacturer when they pay the floorplan off...plus anything else they can add on for "market adjustments".

So when they tell you they aren't making anything @ invoice, you can tell them

BTW...holdback on a Z06 ($71k base model) is $2,130.

About 85% of a dealerships profit comes from SERVICE...good dealerships with excellent service managers make it closer to 90%...

vegasredz062

what the rule of thumb on when Gm renames the corvettes C5,c6 is it every 10 years 9 ,8 .. when is the c7 coming out?

1991Z07

No "rule of thumb" or reason...

C1 - '53 - '62 ---10 years
C2 - '63 - 67 ---5 years
C3 - '68 - '82 ---15 years
C4 - '84 - '96 ---13 years (somewhat misleading since they actually started production in '83)
C5 - '97 - '04 ---8 years
C6 - '05 - '?? ---

So you see...they fluctuate. They changed the chassis designation when they found something better to improve the breed.

It's to keep the rags in business...gives them something to speculate on.

-vet

You guys are missing the big picture> The Corvette that GM races must have the same design layout as the production car. The new mid-engine Corvette will make a very effective platform for GM to go racing with.

vegasredz062

wow they really are all over the place i wonder how long before the c7 , im sure someone out here has some inside info

if you are out there throw us a bone

1991Z07

Not missing the point at all...

To race in GT it MUST be a production vehicle...

But the ENTIRE C7 lineup does NOT have to be mid-engined....

Only 1 model...

The rules for GT1 state:

2.1.3 - "A regular production implies a permanent implementation of the means required to produce a minimum of 1 car per month. If the production is not respected, the ACO will suspend the homologation of the car the year after. The suspension of the homologation will cease once the production delay has been made up. It will be permitted to compete with the car as soon as a minimum of 25 road cars for the "big manufacturers" and 12 road cars for the "small manufacturers" will be produced."

So, GM would need to produce a minimum of 25 road cars in mid-engine trim to be able to race it...

AND..

Section 2.2.3 – lapsed Homologation

"The homologation will become lapsed:
a/ The year following the stop of the production if a minimum of 100 road cars has not been produced (25 for a "small manufacturer")

b/ 7 years after the stop of the production if at least a minimum of 100 road cars has been produced (25 for a "small manufacturer")"

Stops people from "manufacturing" a "ringer" and letting it run for years and years as a "production" car.

So to race it for a few years...GM would need to manufacture at least 100 mid-engined variants...

drsnyder1

I Think a Mid engine Corvette would be a good test run for Gm and a competitor for the Ferrari's and lambos

dagon138

Boy, you can see where many of the C5 design features came from.

2KZ28CAM

Excellent points and rationale. Thanks for the reply.

2KZ28CAM

And that is a fantastic base design to incorporate the latest in technology and engineering -- with some design refinements. GM, are you listening? You have a potential winner here, despite what the purists may say regarding traditions of the previous generations.

BUILD IT!

KretzJ

I've been flamed on other threads for saying this but it's my honest opinion...

mid-engine
AWD
Corvette

They can all exist in the same breath and the world won't stop spinning.

I LOVE the idea (and the PhotoChop running around here) of the Cadillac Cien showcar being worked over as a Corvette. There's a car I would rob a bank to afford.

-jk

davidwp97

Like this?

David

bernrex

Yes.... those angular lines would make for a nice 'angle of attack' for the next generation vette. Seems Caddy always has something the vette can gain from.

-vet

Good detailed points there Joe90 but a second Corvette of a different configuration would be a hard sell. We race one Corvette but you can buy the tier two model. Part of the appeal of the current Corvette racing program is the concept is based a on a production model. The fact that almost everything about it is modified for racing is an accepted difference. However when something is raced that is virtually unobtainable by the public then any halo effect is lost. It's Monday sales that fund Sunday drives.
People asked why the 2008 body was not modified; 'nothing looked better than what was currently offered' was the answer given. When Mr Welburn says he is excited about the new Corvette coming he would not seem to be talking about merely an evolution of the current Corvette. That design direction is finished.

1991Z07

The point I was trying to make is that GM CAN'T produce a mid-engined variant of the Corvette for anywhere near $70k. This (IMHO) would absolutely kill their market share and make the Corvette unattainable for anyone but the mega-rich (and far outside the demographics for the C5 & C6 buyers).

But add a 4th model (Coupe, Vert, Z06, Z07 mid-engine) and you can cover the spectrum from low-end to high-end, and SOME of the technology from the Z07 (my choice for the name at least) would trickle down to the "standard" Corvette configurations (engine management, brakes, engine design, etc.).

GM could still race both versions in SCCA and International venues...could clean everyone's clocks with them too (1-4 finish positions could ALL be Corvettes ) If they didn't want to fund 2 teams, I'm sure someone else would step in with a privateer Z06 race team.

Market share and demographics are what the bean counters look at when they give the nod to a new design. GM couldn't produce 34,000 mid-engine cars in a year, which is what they would need to produce to keep up with current production figures (2006). They certainly couldn't do it with the current technological progress AND keep the price under $75k.

-vet

The market for expensive cars is growing. A higher price should not hurt sales if the product is truly desirable. Some of the compromises dictated by price are what actually hurt sales volume. Porsche is the most profitable car company out there. They are masters of effective marketing. Chevrolet has expanded the option list to get more value into each sale and is offering improvements. The premiums paid over MSRP indicate no shortage of money for desirable cars of all kinds. What feeds that frenzy like nothing else is when a new model 'the latest and greatest' appears in limited quanties. An 'evolution' of the same old excuses won't have that desired result. Mr Lutz is looking for a home run to keep the game going...

AkieNine

nobody is taking into account that there can be a front mid engine car, just as long as the engine is behind the front axle.