502/454 questions
11-14-2002, 02:34 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
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502/454 questions
I have thought of buying a new GM 454/425 HP crate engine, but yesterday I saw that the 502/502 were 'only' $1400 away. The 502 has aluminium heads and it looks that it has a real adjustable valvetrain, no zero-lash.
Do you know the differenses between installing a 454 gen IV versus 502 genVI?
I know that I must use an electric fuel pump, which I already have, a different flywheel, oil pan and clutch adapter, but can I use my 454 gen IV headers?
The 462 that krasched, were a nasty one with 11.2 C/R with lots of heat. Does the 502 generate so much more heat, so I must change radiator? I will replace the mech fan with an electric perma cool HP 16".
Will 295/50-15 B/F rear tires save the muncie M21 and transmission, when it lose grip?
Alot of questions, but you know how it is...
:cheers:
Do you know the differenses between installing a 454 gen IV versus 502 genVI?
I know that I must use an electric fuel pump, which I already have, a different flywheel, oil pan and clutch adapter, but can I use my 454 gen IV headers?
The 462 that krasched, were a nasty one with 11.2 C/R with lots of heat. Does the 502 generate so much more heat, so I must change radiator? I will replace the mech fan with an electric perma cool HP 16".
Will 295/50-15 B/F rear tires save the muncie M21 and transmission, when it lose grip?
Alot of questions, but you know how it is...
:cheers:
11-14-2002, 02:54 AM
#2
Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
I am almost positive it is the same headers. I have been looking for headers lately and they are usually listed as 427/454/502 as being the same part number. I really like the 502/502hp in my vert and when I have my full exhaust on, nobody would ever know I was packing 500 hp. I don't knew the rest of your questions about installation but make sure your fuel pump is big enough.
11-14-2002, 08:04 AM
#3
Team Owner
Re: 502/454 questions (Maurice)
I know the Gen V and Gen VI 454HO and 502's have a NON-adjustable drivetrain, they come with hydraulic/roller cams. I have a Gen V 454HHO that I converted to a solid. The 502 is an awesome motor with it's aluminum Oval port heads. I wanted to go that route but I wanted the rectangle port heads for more power. :cheers:
11-14-2002, 08:56 AM
#4
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Re: 502/454 questions (Corey 68)
Headers off a 454 WILL NOT fit.
But the good news its only because of the tall heads on the head bolts that come on the 502. They touch the bottom of the header flanges. Get new bottom row head bolts with short heads, and any vette BB header will work, including the stock exh manifolds
Been there , done that
But the good news its only because of the tall heads on the head bolts that come on the 502. They touch the bottom of the header flanges. Get new bottom row head bolts with short heads, and any vette BB header will work, including the stock exh manifolds
Been there , done that
11-14-2002, 09:55 AM
#5
Re: 502/454 questions (MELVIN)
Headers off a 454 WILL NOT fit.
But the good news its only because of the tall heads on the head bolts that come on the 502. They touch the bottom of the header flanges. Get new bottom row head bolts with short heads, and any vette BB header will work, including the stock exh manifolds
Been there , done that
But the good news its only because of the tall heads on the head bolts that come on the 502. They touch the bottom of the header flanges. Get new bottom row head bolts with short heads, and any vette BB header will work, including the stock exh manifolds
Been there , done that
BTW, Lasse, GM is coming out with a 600 h.p 502 that supposedly has the mechanical fuel pump and clutch pivot bosses, like the Merlin. It is also coming out with a torque-monster 572 that has the same attributes.
11-14-2002, 01:50 PM
#6
Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
Gm also offers a 502 HO thats 450 hp and like 550 tq for around $800.00 (think thats about right) more that 454 HO. It has the iron heads too.
Also Chevy High Performance mag. has been doing a build up of the 454 HO engine the last three months. They have the articles on there web page right now. http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/
But with out much effort the got 447 hp (?) out of it (headers, carb, and maybe something else) :chevy
[Modified by Tominator, 12:51 PM 11/14/2002]
Also Chevy High Performance mag. has been doing a build up of the 454 HO engine the last three months. They have the articles on there web page right now. http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/
But with out much effort the got 447 hp (?) out of it (headers, carb, and maybe something else) :chevy
[Modified by Tominator, 12:51 PM 11/14/2002]
11-14-2002, 02:25 PM
#7
Race Director
Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
I would suggest a new crate Ram Jet 502/502 HP that comes complete with all the good stuff including the fuel injection and is a very easy drop in. Part number 12497323. Aluminum square port heads at 9.8 to 1 compression and a fairly strong hydraulic roller cam at 527 I and 544 E that could be replaced by a solid lifer style to make even more HP as the max rated RPM is 5800 because of the hydraulic cam which limits effective RPM`s. ;) ;)
I have thought of buying a new GM 454/425 HP crate engine, but yesterday I saw that the 502/502 were 'only' $1400 away. The 502 has aluminium heads and it looks that it has a real adjustable valvetrain, no zero-lash.
Do you know the differenses between installing a 454 gen IV versus 502 genVI?
I know that I must use an electric fuel pump, which I already have, a different flywheel, oil pan and clutch adapter, but can I use my 454 gen IV headers?
The 462 that krasched, were a nasty one with 11.2 C/R with lots of heat. Does the 502 generate so much more heat, so I must change radiator? I will replace the mech fan with an electric perma cool HP 16".
Will 295/50-15 B/F rear tires save the muncie M21 and transmission, when it lose grip?
Alot of questions, but you know how it is...
:cheers:
Do you know the differenses between installing a 454 gen IV versus 502 genVI?
I know that I must use an electric fuel pump, which I already have, a different flywheel, oil pan and clutch adapter, but can I use my 454 gen IV headers?
The 462 that krasched, were a nasty one with 11.2 C/R with lots of heat. Does the 502 generate so much more heat, so I must change radiator? I will replace the mech fan with an electric perma cool HP 16".
Will 295/50-15 B/F rear tires save the muncie M21 and transmission, when it lose grip?
Alot of questions, but you know how it is...
:cheers:
11-15-2002, 01:53 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
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Re: 502/454 questions
502 sounds to be a awesome and easy choice.
Corey - What I can read from GM pappers have the 454 net-lash and 502 zero-lash => I must change the most of valvetrain components(hydralicroller-lifters, pushrods, rockers and studs) if I buy a different cam in 454, but in 502 I can replace the cam without other changes. Right or wrong?
Melvin - You scared me... :D
Massvette - have you changed stuff like rockers, cam etc.. What kind of engine mounts did you use?
Tominator - Very awesome CHP articles who woke me up for GM:s crates. :cheers:
That kind of intake would you choose on a singel carb setup: singel, dual plane like Performer RPM Air-Gap or can I use the original? :cheers:
[Modified by Lasse, 8:05 PM 11/15/2002]
Corey - What I can read from GM pappers have the 454 net-lash and 502 zero-lash => I must change the most of valvetrain components(hydralicroller-lifters, pushrods, rockers and studs) if I buy a different cam in 454, but in 502 I can replace the cam without other changes. Right or wrong?
Melvin - You scared me... :D
Massvette - have you changed stuff like rockers, cam etc.. What kind of engine mounts did you use?
Tominator - Very awesome CHP articles who woke me up for GM:s crates. :cheers:
That kind of intake would you choose on a singel carb setup: singel, dual plane like Performer RPM Air-Gap or can I use the original? :cheers:
[Modified by Lasse, 8:05 PM 11/15/2002]
11-15-2002, 05:17 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
Lasse,
The 502/502 complete engine comes with a roller hydraulic cam. It also comes with a dual plane intake and 850 carb. It also has the HEI dist. and high torque starter as part of the package. If you decide to change the dist. just make sure to use a "Mellonized" dist. gear as the steel cam will eat up the bronze units.
Sanderson is one company that makes headers that have a flange style to clear the aluminum head bolt setup and match the exhaust ports. Just make sure to ask for the Mark V style.
I think you already know about the lack of a mechanical fuel pump location and the forward clutch pivot boss. You will have to install an electric fuel pump and you can get the clutch adaptor bracket from Scroggins-Dickey.
On the motor mounts I used the poly units from Energy Suspension. They have an interlocking feature and the poly should hold up well.
Since you have had a built big block in your car before, assuming that it worked well, you shouldn't need to change your radiator.
Hope that helps, just let me know if you need anything else.
Rich Lagasse
The 502/502 complete engine comes with a roller hydraulic cam. It also comes with a dual plane intake and 850 carb. It also has the HEI dist. and high torque starter as part of the package. If you decide to change the dist. just make sure to use a "Mellonized" dist. gear as the steel cam will eat up the bronze units.
Sanderson is one company that makes headers that have a flange style to clear the aluminum head bolt setup and match the exhaust ports. Just make sure to ask for the Mark V style.
I think you already know about the lack of a mechanical fuel pump location and the forward clutch pivot boss. You will have to install an electric fuel pump and you can get the clutch adaptor bracket from Scroggins-Dickey.
On the motor mounts I used the poly units from Energy Suspension. They have an interlocking feature and the poly should hold up well.
Since you have had a built big block in your car before, assuming that it worked well, you shouldn't need to change your radiator.
Hope that helps, just let me know if you need anything else.
Rich Lagasse
11-15-2002, 05:37 PM
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Re: 502/454 questions (Ironcross)
I agree with the Ram Jet 502/502. Injection, fuel pump, Aluminum heads, computer, a complete drop in. I was considering this for my Bronze 68 Camaro. Pulling the 66 Corvette IP 427/450hp engine and selling it to a 66 owner that needs a correct 427. Just been too lazy so far. But thats the way to fly and it will fit under the hood. :cheers:
I would suggest a new crate Ram Jet 502/502 HP that comes complete with all the good stuff including the fuel injection and is a very easy drop in. Part number 12497323. Aluminum square port heads at 9.8 to 1 compression and a fairly strong hydraulic roller cam at 527 I and 544 E that could be replaced by a solid lifer style to make even more HP as the max rated RPM is 5800 because of the hydraulic cam which limits effective RPM`s. ;) ;) I have thought of buying a new GM 454/425 HP crate engine, but yesterday I saw that the 502/502 were 'only' $1400 away. The 502 has aluminium heads and it looks that it has a real adjustable valvetrain, no zero-lash.
Do you know the differenses between installing a 454 gen IV versus 502 genVI?
I know that I must use an electric fuel pump, which I already have, a different flywheel, oil pan and clutch adapter, but can I use my 454 gen IV headers?
The 462 that krasched, were a nasty one with 11.2 C/R with lots of heat. Does the 502 generate so much more heat, so I must change radiator? I will replace the mech fan with an electric perma cool HP 16".
Will 295/50-15 B/F rear tires save the muncie M21 and transmission, when it lose grip?
Alot of questions, but you know how it is...
:cheers:
Do you know the differenses between installing a 454 gen IV versus 502 genVI?
I know that I must use an electric fuel pump, which I already have, a different flywheel, oil pan and clutch adapter, but can I use my 454 gen IV headers?
The 462 that krasched, were a nasty one with 11.2 C/R with lots of heat. Does the 502 generate so much more heat, so I must change radiator? I will replace the mech fan with an electric perma cool HP 16".
Will 295/50-15 B/F rear tires save the muncie M21 and transmission, when it lose grip?
Alot of questions, but you know how it is...
:cheers:
11-15-2002, 05:46 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
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Re: 502/454 questions (richscorvettes)
Rich I have admired your vettes and garage nearly a year now, it's so great!
Only one question left: Will pan http://www.sdpc2000.com/search.asp?s...5360&doQuery=1 fit?
Ramjet 502 => $8421+30% tax=$10947 :smash:
[Modified by Lasse, 11:53 PM 11/15/2002]
Only one question left: Will pan http://www.sdpc2000.com/search.asp?s...5360&doQuery=1 fit?
Ramjet 502 => $8421+30% tax=$10947 :smash:
[Modified by Lasse, 11:53 PM 11/15/2002]
11-15-2002, 06:07 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
Lasse,
Thanks for the compliment.
That pan will fit and it should come with the right oil pump pick-up. The stock pan that comes with the 502 is a six-quart pan that often doesn't leave enough clearance especially if you have lowered your car.
If your car is the stock height the stock pan might work for you as it clears everything else okay. When we first installed the engine in the 67 I had only 2 1/2" clearance because the car is lowered so much. I didn't want that to be the first thing to hit the "speed-bumps" :nonod: and we changed the pan.
Good luck with your project.
Rich Lagasse
Thanks for the compliment.
That pan will fit and it should come with the right oil pump pick-up. The stock pan that comes with the 502 is a six-quart pan that often doesn't leave enough clearance especially if you have lowered your car.
If your car is the stock height the stock pan might work for you as it clears everything else okay. When we first installed the engine in the 67 I had only 2 1/2" clearance because the car is lowered so much. I didn't want that to be the first thing to hit the "speed-bumps" :nonod: and we changed the pan.
Good luck with your project.
Rich Lagasse
11-15-2002, 06:14 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
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Re: 502/454 questions (richscorvettes)
Thanks for the support!
Yes it's lowered. I had to flatten the H-pipe to D shape so it had slightly more clearance.
Nice to hear that you also have awesome bumps.... :cheers:
[Modified by Lasse, 12:15 AM 11/16/2002]
Yes it's lowered. I had to flatten the H-pipe to D shape so it had slightly more clearance.
Nice to hear that you also have awesome bumps.... :cheers:
[Modified by Lasse, 12:15 AM 11/16/2002]
11-15-2002, 06:22 PM
#14
Re: 502/454 questions (MassVette)
Headers off a 454 WILL NOT fit.
But the good news its only because of the tall heads on the head bolts that come on the 502. They touch the bottom of the header flanges. Get new bottom row head bolts with short heads, and any vette BB header will work, including the stock exh manifolds
Been there , done that
But the good news its only because of the tall heads on the head bolts that come on the 502. They touch the bottom of the header flanges. Get new bottom row head bolts with short heads, and any vette BB header will work, including the stock exh manifolds
Been there , done that
You're right on the money here, MELVIN about the headers. I installed BOTH the 454 HO and the ZZ/502 in C-2 and C-3 'vettes (same chassis); They're totally different performers. For my $$$$$, gimmee the aluminum head 502 any day. It fits under the L-88 hood with a drop air cleaner, in it's hi-rise 4bbl. configuration. The Ramjet 502 won't clear; it's 1 1/2" too tall.
BTW, Lasse, GM is coming out with a 600 h.p 502 that supposedly has the mechanical fuel pump and clutch pivot bosses, like the Merlin. It is also coming out with a torque-monster 572 that has the same attributes.
BTW, Lasse, GM is coming out with a 600 h.p 502 that supposedly has the mechanical fuel pump and clutch pivot bosses, like the Merlin. It is also coming out with a torque-monster 572 that has the same attributes.
11-15-2002, 08:24 PM
#15
Team Owner
Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
Lasse
On the Gen IV 454's you have an adjustable drivetrain, originally cam with a hydraulic cam. The Gen V, VI, and GEN VII have a non-adjustable drivetrain in that it comes with a roller cam. To convert it to a solid like I did, you need to purchased the retrofit rocker studs. With these studs you can just your stock Gen V drivetrain. :cheers:
On the Gen IV 454's you have an adjustable drivetrain, originally cam with a hydraulic cam. The Gen V, VI, and GEN VII have a non-adjustable drivetrain in that it comes with a roller cam. To convert it to a solid like I did, you need to purchased the retrofit rocker studs. With these studs you can just your stock Gen V drivetrain. :cheers:
11-16-2002, 09:32 AM
#16
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Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
I don't think that there is a header made that will be a perfect fit out of the box...with that said, I disagree with the above...they do fit, but you have to do some grinding by the flanges, elongate some bolt holes.
When you say headers don't fit, talk in terms of frame interfearance, port missalignment...those do not exist with the hooker and 396-502 blocks.
When you say headers don't fit, talk in terms of frame interfearance, port missalignment...those do not exist with the hooker and 396-502 blocks.
11-16-2002, 11:05 AM
#17
Re: 502/454 questions (Lasse)
Rich I have admired your vettes and garage nearly a year now, it's so great!
Only one question left: Will pan http://www.sdpc2000.com/search.asp?s...5360&doQuery=1 fit?
Ramjet 502 => $8421+30% tax=$10947 :smash:
[Modified by Lasse, 11:53 PM 11/15/2002]
Only one question left: Will pan http://www.sdpc2000.com/search.asp?s...5360&doQuery=1 fit?
Ramjet 502 => $8421+30% tax=$10947 :smash:
[Modified by Lasse, 11:53 PM 11/15/2002]
:lol: :chevy :chevy :yesnod:
P.S.
The cam and valve train are pretty wild as is........
