Bill Curlee

You need to have someone help you track down and pin point that noise to a specific component / part That will help us get to the bottom of the issue

Have someone start and stop the engine and when the noise happens, track it down.

Its most likely a relay.

Bill

acat1234

Is there a diagram of relay locations and description of what functions they affect? Also, is there a "how-to" video showing removal of various parts for ignition switch removal?

Thanks again for all the valuable information!!

Bill Curlee

The relays are mostly inside the fuse boxes and the legend diagram is in the fuse box cover. If you need to know more about the relays, I suggest that you purchase the three volume set of factory service manuals.

It has a detailed description of each system and how the system works and a detailed electrical diagram.

If you don't want the service manual set, purchase a DVD service manual set form someone on here that has some for sale. It is GM SPO SI (Service Information)

Thats where all the schematics that you see come from.

I don't know of any videos for switch repair.

BC

David Shiel

hopefully the last before proceeding.
In reading the removal procedure, it looks like we need to drop the passenger side glove box and disconnect the air bag plug. Is that really necessary, since the car will be depowered at the negative battery terminal?
Thanks,
Dave


PS: I am ordering a service manual set. Should hae done that a year ago.

Bill Curlee

I have never removed the air bag plug but,,,,,,,,, that just me.

ebatters

Once last week I tried starting as usual and got dash lights but no crank..I repeated attempt 4 times - same thing. On the 5th try, the only diff was letting the car roll back a few feet in neutral, everything worked as normal..and no repeats since. Was this a warning to fix/replace the ignition switch? 01 CP M6

Spirited1

Thank you for posting this awsomely documented article. I am having that low power - issue - and will definetly look at the ignition switch next ...

Bill Curlee

NOTE!!!!


When the starter fails to CRANK the engine,,, there are numerous possible reasons. Some throw DTCs and most do not!

Before you pin the problem on ONE COMPONENT, you have to do some home work.

1, Is the battery fully Charged and in proper working order?

2. Is the IPC SECURITY LIGHT "ON" or "FLASHING" ?

3. Are the battery cable bolts properly torqued to the battery terminals?? 97-03 C5 require 11 ft/lbs for proper terminal connection.

4. Is the Theft Deterrent Relay Starter Solenoid (PURPLE WIRE) "HOT" when you accomplish ALL the steps to crank the engine?

4a. It the starter solenoid "PURPLE" wire has battery voltage on the wire when you attempt to crank the engine and it fails to spin the starter, HIT THE SOLENOID with something solid while someone holds the ignition in the CRANK position and see if the starter cranks the engine. If it does, you have a defective starter solenoid OR loose connections on the solenoid.

Heres the schematic that you need to troubleshoot the issue:

Bill Curlee

Here is the schematic representation of the Ignition switch inputs and outputs:

See the Starter Circuit for more detail:

ebatters

Thanks.....what is the significance of the flashing or "On" Security light in this scenario?

Bill Curlee

IF,, the car thinks it has a security issue, it will NOT crank. Unless the light is OUT when the key is in the ignition, the car goes in to theft mode and will not crank. It also locks out the system for THREE MINUTES if you try to crank it when its flashing or on.

BC

ebatters

Thanks again really helpful

MyOtherCar1940Chevy

Bill, I have been struggling with a 'Pull Key and Wait 10secs' message for a while now (started after I installed the CLB). Been working with 8VETTE7 and going thru a number of checks. Currently finishing up the ground checks, but all are looking very good so far (1997 but with 10K miles). I conducted the fuse tests as you prescribed, and sure enough, fuses 13, 19, 21 and 22 have no voltage when the key is in the ON position. Is this a certain indicator that the ignition switch is at fault here? Asking before I start tearing up the dash to get this replaced. Much appreciated.

Bill Curlee

If you have thge KEY ON,,,, and theres no voltage,,,,,,, GET CRACKEN!!

Please post what you find! You can back probe the switch harness connector and see if theres voltage on each of the output wires:

See post #252 and it has a schematic and shows what EACH switch powers fuse wise!

MyOtherCar1940Chevy

You got it! I will be working the full weekend on this my 'vette to-do' list. I will definitely get back to you, probably Sunday.

David Shiel

was the short wire on the gas door switch plug. Getting it reconnected was nasty, so I added 6 inches of wire to it and then it was a snap! Anyone else have this issue?
Next time I have to remove the console, it will be a breeze.

The contacts were a little black, but not pitted. Will have to see if this solves anything. The total install took only 90 minutes. Learned a lot in the process. Bill's instructions were awesome.
Dave

K-Spaz

As long as this thread is near the top of the forum, I also should give a huge thanks to Bill for taking the time to post this info. This is yet another of his endeavors which helped me avoid copious spending on the wrong stuff.

Thanks Bill!

:Thumbs: :Cheers:

Mr. Peabody

I thought that I followed the steps properly but I must have messed up someplace. I will add this to this post

Bill,

Let me begin by saying thank you for help that you've given me in the past (though you didn't know it). Six months ago I followed your steps to free the stuck EGR valve on the passenger side of the engine. Worked like a charm.

For this issue I will get to the end point first … and then go back and give you all of the details.

On my stock 2004 A4 I cannot get the key to turn in the cylinder lock and thus cannot disconnect the parking cable from the back of the ignition switch assembly.

How can I get the key to turn so that I can remove the cable from the ignition assembly?

If I cannot get the key to turn is there a way to remove the key cylinder lock so that I can have the cylinder replaced?

Now the details. I apologize for being too wordy but I am trying not to leave out something that may be important.

One evening two weeks ago I went to start my car ( a daily driver with 37,000 miles) and the key would not go into the ignition. I played with it for twenty minutes as I didn't want to force it in and break something. (yes, so much for that) After a half an hour I did apply some force and it finally went in but it would not turn. At this point the key would only go in one way. If I turned the key upside down it would not slide into the ignition. But if I pulled it out and turned it around it would slide in smoothly. Still the key would not turn in the ignition. After playing around some more it finally would turn but it gave the symptoms of having a bad resister.

Turn the key to accessories the radio and accessories function normally. Door locks work, etc.

Turn the key to ON the gage needles swing back and forth as normal.

Turn the key to start and nothing. Everything is completely dead. No starter relay click no fuel pump running.

I open the fuse box by the battery, check the ignition fuse…….. no issues there. Also little window on battery is green.

I follow the routine in the owner’s manual and wait 5 minutes instead of 3 minutes and try again. After a half hour of waiting 10 minutes between attempts I figure ok the resister is bad and call my son and have him drive down with the spare key.

The spare key will go into the ignition …. but it will not turn. I’m guessing at this point that I have a problem with the ignition key cylinder. After playing around for a while I get the second key to turn easily in the ignition but the car displays the exact same symptoms of a bad resister as listed above. Well heck the resister in both keys can’t just suddenly go bad at the same time.

But all is well for I have the magic AAA card. I have the car towed 20 miles home on a flat bed. Car is safely home in the garage. After the ride home I did try it once again to see if the bumping around would get it to work but no joy. Everything works as before ... but turn it to “start” and everything is dead.

I do a search and come across your articles on this topic and read through them all very carefully. Ok I will remove the ignition assembly clean all of the contacts and see if that works.……… and this car is an automatic.

A week and a half has gone by and now with the 3 day weekend I have time to follow all of the proper steps so that I can clean the contacts and see if that solves the problem. This morning I go out to begin but when I open the door there is no courtesy light so ……. I turn the key and what’s this ….. the battery is stone cold dead. Bring the battery to my buddy and we put it on the charger.

In the mean time I follow all of the disassembly steps. The center console is removed. The driver knee bolster trim panel is removed and we now have access to the ignition switch assembly. All of the electrical connectors are disconnected …. However we had to do this in a slightly different order than in your instructions.

In order to remove the electrical connectors from the ignition module and get to the park/lock cable we had to remove the two ignition switch retaining bolts first so that we could push the switch assembly through the bracket.

Once this was done we were able to remove the electrical connectors. We examine the park cable and see the retaining tab. We see that by pressing the lock release button on the center of the auto trans selector the cable moves in the ignition module. We insert the key and turn it to ON.

The key ( which did turn previously this morning) will not turn ………… RATS……. I've been fiddling with the key for two hours now and cannot get it to turn. I've turned the steering wheel to see if that does anything but it doesn't.

Without being able to turn the key we cannot remove the cable.
Without removing the cable we cannot get the ignition switch assembly out to test the resistance and or clean the connectors.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

David Shiel

but I am sure you have the gear selector in PARK. I just replaced my switch , and actually was baffled for a few when I had the car in 2 from removing the console. Key would not turn. Too easy, I know.

Mr. Peabody

Yes, I have it in park. The gear lever will no longer move from Park to any other position. I am guessing that if I could turn the key I would then be able to move the shift lever.