OK - checked all the fuses and they all get the correct power and they are all good.

The car only gave me one hard start problem a week ago, and never before that. When it happened, I had left it sitting for about 45 minutes after a 20 minute drive and came back to a no-start. After about 20 tries, it stumble-started, like I had a batch of bad gas. Once it stumbled through that, it ran fine. Came out the other day to take it for a ride, and got it to start after about 30 tries, but this time it fired up like nothing happened - no stumble. Today, nothing. It turns and turns no problem, but will not fire. Now I've done everything in this thread and nothing has changed. What's next?

Oh, and there are no codes whatsoever...

Also pulled plugs - light brown, all around .038 gap. Do I have a fuel pump issue?

When you turn the ignition to ON/RUN,,, do you hear the fuel pump HUM for approx 5 -6 seconds and then stop???

Trying to isolate what would cause an engine to crank but not fire and run.

How are you reading the DTCs and are you reading them without turning the ignition OFF. When you have a NO START EVENT,, press reset to clear any message and read the DTCs....

Bill

I do NOT hear the fuel pump run. The fuse to it is fine - seems odd that it would not be working, but maybe that's it? It has always been so much quieter than my old '99 that I don't even expect to hear the pump, but I suppose I should hear something.

The car spent all of it's life in Texas and has rarely seen the road here in Ohio. Every ground connection has been clean clean clean. I'm reading the DTC's with the key on ON and by manually scrolling through them using the gauge buttons. No Codes all the way through.

The fuel pump should be your very first area of concern.. Start there and let us know what you find. When you KEY ON,,,,,,,, it should run for a few seconds.

BC

It's always the simplest things... I didn't see it mentioned in this post (though it may be), but found the answer in another post Pewter had regarding this same issue - and it's the relay. He mentioned swapping the fuel pump relay for the horn relay in his post, and sure enough, that did it. Now when power goes to the horn, the old fuel pump relay buzzes, but it didn't make a sound when in the #35 spot. I read some other comments that say to only use the GM relay, not a generic replacement, which these are. Whether or not that is correct, I'll drop in to the dealer today and get several of these. Thanks for the help, Bill :thumbs:

1999 C5 complicated starting issue
 

Mr. Bill Curlee,
I wish to thank you in your exceptional review and repair of the 1997-04 ignition switch Chevrolet Corvette. My wife and I have had an on-going issue with the vehicle starting and driving for four to six months. So bad, she will not drive the vehicle as it my leave her stranded and I would have to remedy the no start. The vehicle will sometimes start or hesitate to start. When it hesitates to start, the dash cluster will die completely (no cluster sweep), no pump fuel engagement, or sometimes the starter will clunk, disengage-clunk on and off rapidly. I would drive it and the vehicle would die under 5mph speed with no switch power, leaving us at great risk stalled in traffic.
I’m mechanically inclined, so I got to fix this so she can drive it. I found a Delco ignition switch (D1499C) on Amazon for 43.91 shipped. So I started off into Google and found that my old haunt The Corvette Forum may have an answer. Searched for how to install an ignition switch and found your review/repair post. I said “..what the hell, I’ve got one coming anyway!” and ripped into the vehicle. And what do you know, the same two contacts/spring-contacts totally charred. I polished those surface areas to an almost shine, cleaned the area of debris, and reassembled the switch (properly). Then I reinstalled the switch into the vehicle, reconnected the battery and with 30 random key cycles not a failure, hiccup, or no-start condition.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8...hchar01.th.jpg

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8...hchar02.th.jpg
My wife and I do appreciate the kind review and the service that you and this forum exchange information to help those in need. And now, we've gotta drive her vehicle.. *big smiles*

airdeano

Heres another useful thread that I made last night. I see people with this issue all the time:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...post1580770529

BC

Bill, you saved my bacon yet again buddy!! The last time was when I was getting water in the BCM well and you showed me where the drain plugs were and how clogged up they can get...well this time it was the no start scenario and after buying a new key (figued the contacts on the old one were worn down), still had this issue. Long story short, I took the ignition switch off, performed the Curlee surgery on the contacts and VIOLA!!!, starts up everytime, no issues. I have a long running bill with you my friend and am afraid to ask what the total is now! :lol: You a blessing and inspiration to our community Bill...can't thank you enough

Best regards

Mo (your Canadian apprentice!)

Great write up Bill! :cheers:

Bill,

What about the "pull key, wait 10 sec" message? I've been getting it lately. I tried cleaning it with compressed air and electronic spray. The only time it starts without getting the message is when I spray the key with the alcohol cleaner right before I insert it. If I don't spray it I get the message. It's the same with both keys. What would you suggest?

Thanks,

Rock

Does this sound like an ign switch issue?

Car runs fine, but when I turn it off and remove the key, the chime dings like the key is still in the ignition. If I try to lock the doors, it double dings like it's telling me the key is still in there.

ign switch
 

Now the new switch is acting up. I tried cleaning the key a few times, pushing it in and out and it worked for awhile. It was the worst the other day and refused to connect and the battery got weak. I opened the hood to boost it and tried once more and it worked, flooded but I got it running. I started using the spare key and it worked for awhile and then it acted up again today. Where do I go from here?

The small switch in the center of the switches controls that function. Its difficult to fix that switch Just make sure that it moving and working...



Attachment 48145974

The pull key deals with the column lock function. If I were you,,, I would install the column lock bypass or the LMC5 bypass before you get stranded.

Bill

Bill PLEASE HELP
 

bill, can i call you,,very hard to explain problem..if so my email address is lolosmaggie@gmail.com Thank you so much.....

Wow! After reading all 11 pages, I guess I'll try to see why my security light is coming on and staying on. It's been great weather lately so I've been parking the Z and taking the bike. Occasionally I would get a Charge System Fault on startup..so not sure if I have an ignition switch issue or battery going flakey. This morning though, the security light stayed on after startup. I killed the car, restarted, it went off but came back on after driving a few hundred yards. So I went back home, got my 2nd key, and the light stayed off till after about 30 miles. Got to work, killed it, restarted and it's off. Need to go out at lunch and pull codes.

So Bill, in your most excellent wisdom, which way to go? Battery, or pop out the ignition switch?

Richard

Like to say thank you to bill. This helped me out. Mine was also burnt pretty bad. So thank youfor taking the head time to help us all. Reggie

Need some pointers
 

I picked up a used ignition switch off flea bay. I wanted to use it as a spare and fix the contacts and just swap switches to save down time. I need some idea on how to remove cylinder on the replacement switch. I have no key.

Bill Curlee has a complete step by step, with pictures posted. Do a forum search.

Really??
I'll look again. I've seen the how to on cleaning the contacts, but on how to remove the lock cylinder WITHOUT the key??

Still looking

I just reviewed the cylinder lock removal instructions. You have to have the key and turn it to the ON position.

Once its in that position, there is a release on the side that you depress and the cylinder comes out.


You can either try to pick the lock with a lock pick set OR you can take it to a lock smith and have him pick it for you.

Picking the lock really isnt that difficult.. Give that a try first.

If you have the lock smith pick yours, have him re-pin the cylinder to match your key.

Bill

hard start
 

Bill, Thank you for your help. I will save this and when the weather warms I will follow this and I'm sure I'll solve my problem. The way this looks, the code 705 is another problem to deal with. Onwards and upwards we go. mike

WOW AWESOME write up on this! you make it look so easy :)

It realy is that easy.. :thumbs:

Bill

I addes some updated information to the very first part of the post. Figured I would add it here for people that dont go back and read the very first post:


Here are a FEW UPDATES that have been added as we refine this repair process:

Recommned that you obtain some 600 grit wet and dry sand paper. Cut a strip about 6" long X 3/4" wide. Fold it in half so that you have sand paper on both sides. Work the sand paper in between all the contacts on one side of the switch. Pull and push the sand paper between the stationary contacts and movable contact arms. Doing this will lap in a bigger contact area between the two contacts thus allowing the switch to carry a bigger current load without heating up. When you are done lapping the contacts on one side, lap the other side.

NOTE! Make sure that you recheck the contact pressure on the contach arms to insure that they are still making firm contact. Clean the contacts and recheck the resistance of each switch.

NOTE! The Electrical connectors with FEMALE PINS that pulg into the Ignition Switch can spread and male poor connection with the male pins inside the switch. Check the female pins inside the two power connectors:

Attachment 48143732

Once you sand the burned marks off the bent female pins, rebend them back so that the tong makes better contact with the male pins inside the switch. There are TWO damaged large pins in the black plug and one on the white plug.

Thanks for the write up. I took my switch apart and sure enough I had burned contacts. All though this did not fix the problem I did find the answer to my problem in this thread. Damn g105 ground was loose turned out to be my problem.

What are the common problems related to the switch?
I get the ABS/TC issue pretty often. One for sure is when I get those lights, my power steering is effected. It's as if I no longer have power steering.
Now and then I get a security light on my dash but don't notice any symtoms with it.

A couple months ago, while swapping front and rear cradles, adding coilovers, etc.... I used a can of electrical cleaner on just about every plug I could find on the car in the areas I was working. Got most of the connectors in the engine bay and most of them under the rear of the car. I'm sure I missed some of the grounding points but think I got several.

Curious if I should go ahead and check my ignition switch and maybe check the door accordians as well.

Looks like I need a new tool as I don't think I have a volt meter in my garage!

If you purchase one,,, Make sure that you get one that has features that you will use and scales that are easy to under stand. It should have Volts AC & DC, AMPS, Milliamps and OHMS Scale.

I own a C5, think it might be in my best interest to just own one!!!!

Update 24 May 13

I have to admit that; just because the ignition switch contacts look burnt, they still could be fine. The problem occurs when the contacts start building resistance from the carbon, poor contact continuity and burnt contacts.

That excessive resistance causes the 12 VDC battery voltage supplied to the switch and controlled by those contacts to be something LESS than full battery voltage. If the switch is marginally defective, it may work one ignition sequence and fail horribly the next. Please check the ignition switch resistance AND electrical output after cycling it several times.

Most of the problems with our ignition switches are, the contacts do not close perfectly parallel and after thousands of OPEN/SHUT cycles, the contact arms heat up and loose tension. That’s when the resistance starts building and the switch contacts generate excessive heat and degraded voltage outputs.

Before any ignition switch is rebuilt/repaired, you should measure the closed contacts with an OHM Meter and see what you have resistance wise. Measuring all the contacts requires cycling the switch thru all of its available positions. Write down the resistance value before repair and then again after repair.

When you repair/rebuild the switch, re-arch the movable contact arms so that they shut with more pressure.

One of the reasons that the contacts get hot is, some circuits draw a moderate amounts of current. If the contacts don’t close perfectly parallel, there is only a very small contact point for the current to flow thru. That causes heat and excessive arching when the contacts shut.

Im going to reassemble a switch and slide some wet and dry sand paper between the closed contacts and work the paper between the contacts to LAP the contacts so that they have a larger contact point

NOTE! Anytime you clean/sand or file any electrical contact, you should finish the surface as smooth as you can and before finial reassembly, clean the contacts with isopropyl alcohol so that there is no grease or grit between the contacts.

As always, CHECK THE RESISTANCE of each contact in the switch (you have to cycle it thru all it positions) and make sure that it is not excessive. When you re-arch the movable arms, if you are TOO AGGRESSIVE, the switch contacts will never open when the arm is pushed open and that will cause an ignition circuit to remain ON when its suppose to be OFF. That will cause excessive battery current draw in the sleep mode and KILL the battery in short order.

Something else that needs to be examined is the female pins in the ignition switch connector. If they are spread and make poor contact, they also can cause lower ignition switch output voltages. I have seen female pin contacts so loose that they heat up and melt the connector causing ignition switch failure on all outputs for that 12 VDC circuit.

Look at the picture provided. Two of the contacts in the black connector (the two on the inboard contacts) are spread apart and have signs of electrical arcing and carbon. They need to be cleaned and the tong needs to be bent so that it makes better contact with the male pin inside the switch
I will add this to my Ignition Switch post.:thumbs:

Attachment 48143065

Bill

In my case, both times the ignition switch was repaired by the dealer, it was $400 including a 10% senior discount.

I would note that the symptoms of the first ignition switch failure were different than the second one. I never had a crank, no start with the first failure. The first failure began when the engine died at a stop sign on the way to work. It restarted normally.

When I tried to start it to drive home that afternoon, it would start and briefly run on one or two cylinders and die, generating a plethora of codes from service traction system to reduced power, low voltage and on and on.

Bill, thanks again for the detailed posts.

more fixin' I'm prolly gonna have to do in the future.

I have just fitted a second hand ignition barrel and switch to my c5. I connected new switch and barrel up before I removed old switch to test it and started up fine. When I had removed old switch and installed new switch there nothing. Do I need to sync the new switch with the cut out or have I missed something else?

Haaaaaa,,, I bet you are using the key that came with the second hand lock/switch set up!! CORRECT????


Bill

Correct

LOL!! Your KEY contains a resistor pellet. The resistance of that pellet MUST match the recorded value in the BCM Memory. You need to swap back in your key lock set into the ignition switch so you can use your key. The key that came with the switch WILL NOT work if it is NOT the same resistance.

Other wise, you will be locked out of engine operation by the BCM Security.


BC

Thanks Bill for such fantastic advice and instructions. I am a "newbie" with a 2001 c5 coupe. Will a faulty ignition switch cause the starter to "drag" after starting? Also, will the faulty switch allow the fuel pump to continue running (slightly) making the engine attempt to run after turning switch off?

Thanaks

I would say that you have an Ignition Switch issue. The fuel pump cant run without the ignition switch being ON or power coming from it. If its still running after you go to OFF,, the switch has to be the issue and staying ON

You could also have a starter solenoid or Theft Deterrent Relay issue if your starter is still running in run or off.

Attachment 48142412

It does not happen every time I start the car, but if there is a harsh (not sharp or banging) metallic noise coming from the front of the car, the car will continue to try and run when I turn the ignition switch off. If the car starts and there is no noise, then the car shuts down perfectly when the switch is turned off.

You need to have someone help you track down and pin point that noise to a specific component / part That will help us get to the bottom of the issue

Have someone start and stop the engine and when the noise happens, track it down.

Its most likely a relay.

Bill

Is there a diagram of relay locations and description of what functions they affect? Also, is there a "how-to" video showing removal of various parts for ignition switch removal?

Thanks again for all the valuable information!!

The relays are mostly inside the fuse boxes and the legend diagram is in the fuse box cover. If you need to know more about the relays, I suggest that you purchase the three volume set of factory service manuals.

It has a detailed description of each system and how the system works and a detailed electrical diagram.

If you don't want the service manual set, purchase a DVD service manual set form someone on here that has some for sale. It is GM SPO SI (Service Information)

Thats where all the schematics that you see come from.

I don't know of any videos for switch repair.

BC

Bill, one more question and
 

hopefully the last before proceeding.
In reading the removal procedure, it looks like we need to drop the passenger side glove box and disconnect the air bag plug. Is that really necessary, since the car will be depowered at the negative battery terminal?
Thanks,
Dave


PS: I am ordering a service manual set. Should hae done that a year ago.

I have never removed the air bag plug but,,,,,,,,, that just me. :thumbs:

Once last week I tried starting as usual and got dash lights but no crank..I repeated attempt 4 times - same thing. On the 5th try, the only diff was letting the car roll back a few feet in neutral, everything worked as normal..and no repeats since. Was this a warning to fix/replace the ignition switch? 01 CP M6

Good to Know !!
 

Thank you for posting this awsomely documented article. I am having that low power - issue - and will definetly look at the ignition switch next ...

NOTE!!!!


When the starter fails to CRANK the engine,,, there are numerous possible reasons. Some throw DTCs and most do not!

Before you pin the problem on ONE COMPONENT, you have to do some home work.

1, Is the battery fully Charged and in proper working order?

2. Is the IPC SECURITY LIGHT "ON" or "FLASHING" ?

3. Are the battery cable bolts properly torqued to the battery terminals?? 97-03 C5 require 11 ft/lbs for proper terminal connection.

4. Is the Theft Deterrent Relay Starter Solenoid (PURPLE WIRE) "HOT" when you accomplish ALL the steps to crank the engine?

4a. It the starter solenoid "PURPLE" wire has battery voltage on the wire when you attempt to crank the engine and it fails to spin the starter, HIT THE SOLENOID with something solid while someone holds the ignition in the CRANK position and see if the starter cranks the engine. If it does, you have a defective starter solenoid OR loose connections on the solenoid.

Heres the schematic that you need to troubleshoot the issue:

Attachment 48142396

Here is the schematic representation of the Ignition switch inputs and outputs:

See the Starter Circuit for more detail:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...tionSwitch.gif

Attachment 48142360

Thanks.....what is the significance of the flashing or "On" Security light in this scenario?

IF,, the car thinks it has a security issue, it will NOT crank. Unless the light is OUT when the key is in the ignition, the car goes in to theft mode and will not crank. It also locks out the system for THREE MINUTES if you try to crank it when its flashing or on.

BC

Thanks again really helpful

Bill, I have been struggling with a 'Pull Key and Wait 10secs' message for a while now (started after I installed the CLB). Been working with 8VETTE7 and going thru a number of checks. Currently finishing up the ground checks, but all are looking very good so far (1997 but with 10K miles). I conducted the fuse tests as you prescribed, and sure enough, fuses 13, 19, 21 and 22 have no voltage when the key is in the ON position. Is this a certain indicator that the ignition switch is at fault here? Asking before I start tearing up the dash to get this replaced. Much appreciated.

If you have thge KEY ON,,,, and theres no voltage,,,,,,, GET CRACKEN!!:smash:

Please post what you find! You can back probe the switch harness connector and see if theres voltage on each of the output wires:

See post #252 and it has a schematic and shows what EACH switch powers fuse wise!

You got it! I will be working the full weekend on this my 'vette to-do' list. I will definitely get back to you, probably Sunday.

Ignition swich is in. Only problem
 

was the short wire on the gas door switch plug. Getting it reconnected was nasty, so I added 6 inches of wire to it and then it was a snap! Anyone else have this issue?
Next time I have to remove the console, it will be a breeze.

The contacts were a little black, but not pitted. Will have to see if this solves anything. The total install took only 90 minutes. Learned a lot in the process. Bill's instructions were awesome.
Dave

As long as this thread is near the top of the forum, I also should give a huge thanks to Bill for taking the time to post this info. This is yet another of his endeavors which helped me avoid copious spending on the wrong stuff.

Thanks Bill!

:Thumbs: :Cheers:

Trying to remove the assembly BUT Can't get the key to Turn
 

I thought that I followed the steps properly but I must have messed up someplace. I will add this to this post

Bill,

Let me begin by saying thank you for help that you've given me in the past (though you didn't know it). Six months ago I followed your steps to free the stuck EGR valve on the passenger side of the engine. Worked like a charm.

For this issue I will get to the end point first … and then go back and give you all of the details.

On my stock 2004 A4 I cannot get the key to turn in the cylinder lock and thus cannot disconnect the parking cable from the back of the ignition switch assembly.

How can I get the key to turn so that I can remove the cable from the ignition assembly?

If I cannot get the key to turn is there a way to remove the key cylinder lock so that I can have the cylinder replaced?

Now the details. I apologize for being too wordy but I am trying not to leave out something that may be important.

One evening two weeks ago I went to start my car ( a daily driver with 37,000 miles) and the key would not go into the ignition. I played with it for twenty minutes as I didn't want to force it in and break something. (yes, so much for that) After a half an hour I did apply some force and it finally went in but it would not turn. At this point the key would only go in one way. If I turned the key upside down it would not slide into the ignition. But if I pulled it out and turned it around it would slide in smoothly. Still the key would not turn in the ignition. After playing around some more it finally would turn but it gave the symptoms of having a bad resister.

Turn the key to accessories the radio and accessories function normally. Door locks work, etc.

Turn the key to ON the gage needles swing back and forth as normal.

Turn the key to start and nothing. Everything is completely dead. No starter relay click no fuel pump running.

I open the fuse box by the battery, check the ignition fuse…….. no issues there. Also little window on battery is green.

I follow the routine in the owner’s manual and wait 5 minutes instead of 3 minutes and try again. After a half hour of waiting 10 minutes between attempts I figure ok the resister is bad and call my son and have him drive down with the spare key.

The spare key will go into the ignition …. but it will not turn. I’m guessing at this point that I have a problem with the ignition key cylinder. After playing around for a while I get the second key to turn easily in the ignition but the car displays the exact same symptoms of a bad resister as listed above. Well heck the resister in both keys can’t just suddenly go bad at the same time.

But all is well for I have the magic AAA card. I have the car towed 20 miles home on a flat bed. Car is safely home in the garage. After the ride home I did try it once again to see if the bumping around would get it to work but no joy. Everything works as before ... but turn it to “start” and everything is dead.

I do a search and come across your articles on this topic and read through them all very carefully. Ok I will remove the ignition assembly clean all of the contacts and see if that works.……… and this car is an automatic.

A week and a half has gone by and now with the 3 day weekend I have time to follow all of the proper steps so that I can clean the contacts and see if that solves the problem. This morning I go out to begin but when I open the door there is no courtesy light so ……. I turn the key and what’s this ….. the battery is stone cold dead. Bring the battery to my buddy and we put it on the charger.

In the mean time I follow all of the disassembly steps. The center console is removed. The driver knee bolster trim panel is removed and we now have access to the ignition switch assembly. All of the electrical connectors are disconnected …. However we had to do this in a slightly different order than in your instructions.

In order to remove the electrical connectors from the ignition module and get to the park/lock cable we had to remove the two ignition switch retaining bolts first so that we could push the switch assembly through the bracket.

Once this was done we were able to remove the electrical connectors. We examine the park cable and see the retaining tab. We see that by pressing the lock release button on the center of the auto trans selector the cable moves in the ignition module. We insert the key and turn it to ON.

The key ( which did turn previously this morning) will not turn ………… RATS……. I've been fiddling with the key for two hours now and cannot get it to turn. I've turned the steering wheel to see if that does anything but it doesn't.

Without being able to turn the key we cannot remove the cable.
Without removing the cable we cannot get the ignition switch assembly out to test the resistance and or clean the connectors.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

I Know I am really shooting in the dark,
 

but I am sure you have the gear selector in PARK. I just replaced my switch , and actually was baffled for a few when I had the car in 2 from removing the console. Key would not turn. Too easy, I know.

Yes, I have it in park. The gear lever will no longer move from Park to any other position. I am guessing that if I could turn the key I would then be able to move the shift lever.

I applied this fix and it worked perfectly with and pencil eraser. Starts everytime. Thanks for the information. Now if the rain will stop i can put it all back together. Mark

I know Bill Curley has sold his Vet, but if he logs on or anyone knows Bill personally, please pass along my thanks, this ignition repair worked like a champ and solved several problems for me, as well as several other of Bill's posts. Thank you Bill....

:toetap: Who sold who's vette???:eek: Hell,, I have FOUR of them....:rock:

I log on EVERY DAY, Well,,, almost every day when work isn't going NUTS. Damn broke ass Submarines. A feller cant even enjoy the forum during LUNCH lately..:rofl:

:lol::lol: Just kidding. Glad you were able to use the post to your advantage.:cheers::rock:

Bill

Sorry Bill,

I must have mis-read one of the posts and thought it was you. Thanks again for all the work and posting pictures were extremely helpful. I had a problem with codes for all the o2 heaters and it was the ignition switch... go figure.

Like working on the Vette, but love driving it.....

ignition switch repair
 

Hi all, followed the repair procedure for the switch on my new to me c5. I just joined the c5 owners ranks this month. The car I purchased is a 2001 coupe. It had the traction control warning popping up and the switch for the traction control would not work. After searching the forum for possible causes I ran across this thread and decided to give it a shot. PO had done the EBCM repair Listed on the forum but still was having the warning coming up. After repairing the switch and reinstalling I had no more traction control or active handling messages. Thanks to Bill Curlee and all you other members who make this forum work. I am not new to corvettes, but new to the c5. I love the car. It is soo far ahead of my other cars in handling and drivability, it is hard to believe I waited so long to get one. My first corvette was a 1963 roadster I purchased from a Chevrolet dealer for $800.00. Of course the year was 1969 and the car did actually start and run.

thanks Jerry:thumbs:

I had weird delay issues on my 1999 C5 Coupe. Press the unlock button on my FOB and there was a delay in it unlocking the car. Also my volt meter in my IPC was reading a little lower than usual. Speedo would go nuts as well. Had starting problems. It would click a bit before starting or there would be a delay before it would start, but it did finally start every time.

Looked on here for issues and saw this thread about the ignition switch. Took it out and the contacts were pretty fouled. Cleaned them and put the switch back in ( had help. Not the best with electronics ). Have not had any issues since. Everything is working perfectly now.

Great thread.
Thanks Bill.

2002 C5 ignition switch issue
 

Bill, can you explain where to connect the volt meter leads to check the resistance on the ignition switch? Should the green cap remain on and I would simply connect to the male pins. If so what pins for each key position?

I have a 2002 C5 and 4 of the connections were pitted so I cleaned them and bent the arms for a tighter fit. All seemed ok, I put it back in the car and it would not start. Turns out that I wiggled the black + white connectors then the car started. I will now check the black + white connector female plugs to see if they are burnt or look loose.

Still need to know where to hook up the volt meter leads to check resistance.

Great post in any case. I like when I don't have to take my car to the dealer.

What does "I/P" mean?
 

:eek:

IP = INSTRUMENT PANEL IPC = Instrument Panel Console

Thanks!

Hey Bill,

Sorry to ask this again but you were going to take apart the mechanical side of a switch a while back.

I got a little too ambitious and took mine apart before I read your warning (which is too too true..) NEVER TAKE OFF THE BACK OF THE SWITCH!!! :(

I might have lost 1 of the springs inside, I am one short...

Do you remember if all 5 brass plungers in the switch had springs?

Chad

So I had an old weed wacker that I couldn't get running and I remembered this little spring in the carb. Took it out and what do you know, it fits!! Its a little tall but I'll just cut it down a bit.

I'd still like to know if anyone has taken this side apart like I did, if there were springs for all 5.

So it looks like the 5 springs are correct, I put it back together and after charging the battery, it started fine and seems to function right.

YES! There are springs in all the buttons.

Thanks Bill!

Car is back together and running fine thanks to your excellent post.

Chad

Bill this is awesome thread. for me its a bit overwhelming. tell me what you think on my issue.

Took my Z for a drive sunday no worries. Went to back it out of the garage sunday morning. and the key would not even go in the key hole. I had to force it in and it finally went. after in the key would not turn at all. I applied a little harder pressure and I could feel it trigger at the back and it turned the key over and let me start the car. it will start everytime now, but I have to really push the key when it gets to the very back. it slides in easy then I have to give it a small push at the end, and the key will turn over. when it turns over its not very smooth. I can feel it catch and break lose.

any opinions would will be helpful

You either have a damaged VATS sensor OR a damaged key lock cylinder.

Either way,,,TRUST ME! Get a NEW Lock Cylinder and have a Lock Smith re-key it to your key before you get STRANDED some where in the boonies or a bad place in town.

Thats Murphy's 26 law and one of the most prevalent one. :yesnod::D

The lock cylinder/VATs sensor is a completely different part than the Ignition Switch.


Bill

Thanks Bill for this thread! This easy repair fixed a lot of annoying problems with my car.

I nominate Bill for SAINTHOOD!!!!

Another happy owner
 

After chasing Gremlins on and off for a year I decided to change the switch. Got one from Gene and like a magic wand BAMM all fixed.

Only took about a hour from start to finish and that included looking for lost screws.

If your on the fence about this repair don't be, its a piece of cake.

Bob

Bill, because of this and YOU, I just bought a Gold Membership.

Can I ask what other gremlins did u have that replacing the switch fixed the problems|?

Here ya go
 

I had just about everything. lets see I'd be driving along and traction control light would come on and start ding ding.
Driving along EVERYTHING on the dash would light up, gauges would go to zero, radio would stop, windows would not go up and down.
driving along and reduced engine warning and associated ding ding.
driving along and security light would start flashing.
driving along and ABS warning
Driving along no problems, park car and windows wont work.
etc etc
Just about anything you can think of was happening whenever it felt like.
Sometimes i'd drive for a month with nothing, then bamm it would start again.
Weird but a 75 dollar part fixed it all:willy:

? ignition noise? on shut down?
 

Anyone know what this metal grinding noise is on shut down?
Does it with the belts off as well..
Listen to carefully at .04 sec & there after.... replay it...... replay it
replay it..

Duuuuuude.. Seriously

My 02 ZO6 engine rumbles just like yours at idle. I have a 240ish/240ish 610 @ 114+4 Cam. Same fast intake and TB, ported Patriot Stage 2 heads, 12.5 compression

I have a very similar noise. IMHO, its compression from one of the cylinders pissen thru one of almost shut valves. How much overlap do you have and what cam???

Get a mechanics stereoscope and see of you can hear it in one of the intake runners or exhaust header pipe.

It almost sounds like it happening on the same cylinder each time. So does mine.

I just read through 15 pages of this thread and what an awesome resource you are Bill. I have read through the thread and here's my situation.

I recently bought a 97 C5 at the Dealer auction in Manheim PA on a whim, mostly because I decided at the spur of the moment that it would be a fun toy. It's in remarkably good shape but I suspect that I have the beginning stages of this ignition switch failure.

Here's my situation.

Car runs / drives perfectly. No errors, no issues.

BUT.. The mechanic / engineer in me noticed that the voltage gauge was sitting awfully low with the car running. So I switched the dash to battery volts, and it would cycle up and down between 12.1 and 12.7 volts, depending on various electrical loads. Brake lights, radio etc.

Initially I though crap, this thing has a bad alternator. But then I thought to myself. How did I drive it home 90 miles, have it for a week, multiple restarts, smaller trips etc, and the battery is still starting the car perfectly fine etc.

My brother wanted to come to the conclusion that the alternator was "weak" and not charging at the appropriate levels, but just enough to keep the car running.

So then the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that the gauge can't be accurate.

I took my DVM and touched the battery terminals the battery displayed 12.97 volts. I turned the key (not car on), and the dash simultaneously displayed 11.5 volts. So after seeing this thread and your schematics etc, I suspect that the switch has developed carbon etc as you indicated where it's causing a 1.3-1.5 volt drop on the hot on run and start side. I haven't tested the fuse #19 to check to see what the IP fuse shows for voltage, but I doubt that the dash voltmeter is inaccurate.

Honestly, If I'm taking the car apart to the point of getting the switch out I'm just going to replace it with new. I get wholesale parts pricing, and I'd rather have the peace of mind of a brand new switch. My question is do you agree with my diagnosis, or would you suspect something other than the switch?

Thanks in Advance,

George

You are 100% on the correct track! Post the repair results when you are all done.


:thumbs:

Bill

Ok got my brand new AC / Delco made in china (insert eye roll here) ignition switch delivered to my shop by the local Chevrolet dealer this afternoon. Btw the new switches are all black - no more green cover. They also don't have the vats sensor thingy.

I'm kind of confused about two points although they should make sense as I go about the swap.

First, do I have to remove the rear portion of the console that includes the arm rest? The two 10mm nuts under the caps in the very back? Or can I just pop off the plate with the active handling switch, pull the two 10 mm nuts, and the 3 t15 torx screws - two in the ashtray and one behind the temp sensor cover and get the trim around the radio / AC off and then drop the driver side knee bolster to get the ign switch out.

Second. I'm a bit confused as to the instructions as to how to remove the park interface cable on the trans.

I'm planning on trying to kill two birds with one stone on this project and also pull the hvac control panel and attempt the resoldering fix to get the display to work again.

Any advice from someone who has done this before will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

George

George


Te VATs sensor is attached to the end of the ignition Key Cylinder which must ne transfered to the new Ignition Switch.

Turn the switch to ON and there is a button on the side of the switch that relaeases the Key lock cylinder.

Take the arm rest out. Its two more nuts/ You will have more woom to work.

NOTE! Make sure that you carefully examine the female connectors that plug into the switch and see if the female pins are bent / spread apart... If they are, you will need to bend them back to make good contact with the male pins.

BC

do you have a quick link to replacing the ignition cylinder?

Bill is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
He saved me hundreds of $$ and hours of time after narrowing my battery voltage issues down to my ignition switch.
This is one of the greatest threads available for the c5 and if anyone isn't running above 13v this is probably your issue. Mine was even down to 9.8> before shutting off.
Thanks again Bill

Should our cars be included in the GM Ignition Switch Recall? When mine went bad a few years ago I was on the freeway and my car lost all power, I was able to pull off to the shoulder (without getting hit) only by the Grace of God.

:iagree:

Another nomination of sainthood for Bill here!

I had 4 incidents where I was on the freeway and my car lost all power, funky electrical gremlins, no start situations ending up with me screaming at the car in front of Panda Express, replacing a battery, crazy random codes etc.

8 bucks for sandpaper and a couple hours is all it took to fix it.

Thank you Bill Curlee!

The only thing that you can do is write the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and state your problem and safety concern. Better be glad you don't own a C6.

The EBTCM has issues with the Steering wheel position switch and is causing cars to lock up one of the front wheels and send cars shooting LEFT or RIGHT at highway speeds.

After ALL these years and issues on the C6,, NO RECALL YET. Some one has to DIE first..

Heres the post from the C6 Tech section:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...er-action.html

Writing GM is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME! Trust me!!

They DO NOT care about our C5 Trust me... I have it in writing. SCUM BAGS only want out cash and cover up issues that can harm us, and they obsolete critical parts and ignore our request for help.

Ive purchased my last Chevy!

Bill

Ohm Readings from Ignition Switch
 

Hi Bill,
I am trying to get resistance readings from the ignition switch contacts. How/where do I place the probes so I am reading from circuit ends across a circuit? Do you have pictures of this?

Look at post reply #252. It shows the pinouts on the switch. The switch pins are labled A,B C.......................

Thank you Mr. Curlee

My ignition switch appeared to be the culprit for recent avalanche of codes:

SDM U1040
PCM P1689
BCM B0432

And Service Vehicle Soon message, along with occasional TCS No Comm and Service Active Handling messages.

Took the ignition switch out and apart. There was plenty of evidence of arcing going on and three contacts had deposits on them; two were really bad. Sanded them (and all others) with 800 grit sand paper and cleaned with 91% isopropyl alcohol and put back in the car. All the codes magically went away. Big thanks to Bill for this write up!

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