bill is a stud
 

My ac/heater unit was not coming on (no power) or it would take a few minutes or not come on at all. So i just went for it and decided to follow ur steps.. Figured it would not hurt. Did not even take the switch out of the car, it was pitted pretty bad. Cleaned it up and back together now. Whole thing took about an hour. Oh and its 112 today. Brutal... Bill, Holy ****, excuse my language but my ac/heat control unit works. I started the car and shut it off 5 or six times and it came on right away. I have been dealing with this problem for ever (6 months) and with this weather its been brutal. So in the end u saved me hundreds of dollars and i got the satisfaction of fixing it myself and learning something new. Im a very happy guy right now and its thanks to u. U made my year.... THANKS A LOT Bill. Ur a stud..................................:c heers:;):flag::):yesnod::yesnod::):flag: ;):cheers:

I am sure glad I found this topic. Here is my problem. I drove my car about 15 miles to get something to eat. It was 87 degrees and I had the air on. After eating and driving back I stopped to get something from a store. When I came out the car wouldn't start. I turned the key and nothing. I check the battery cables and they were ok. I thought because it was hot out and the air on the battery puked. I turned on the headlight and they were bright. I tried the key again and wiggled it and the car started. The security light stayed on. When I got home I turned the car off and tried to start it and nothing again.

I went through the codes and cleared them. The car started and I used it without any more problems. Do you think my switch is the problem? My car is a 2004 coupe six speed with 16,000 miles. Also would it hurt it if I sprayed WD40 in the lock cylinder?

Thanks Ed

ED

That sounds more like the classic starter solenoid problem than the switch. The next time it wont start, depress the clutch and turn and HOLD the switch to start. While your holding it there, pump the clutch peddle on and off the "CLUTCH SAFETY SWITCH" and each time you make and break that switch,,you should hear the theft deterrent relay (TDR) in the passengers foot well click.

Attachment 48158592

The TDR is the relay that has FOUR wires. Red, Purple, yellow and yellow /black stripe. Look above the BCM. Its the relay on the left (inboard relay)

Cycling the clutch safety switch on and off will tell you that the low current side of the TDR starter circuit is functioning correctly. Heres the schematic and circuit:

Attachment 48158593

The purple wire is the actual wire that supplies 12 VDC 60 amps to the starter solenoid. Your either not getting that voltage to the solenoid OR your are and the solenoid is BAD. You can monitor the purple wire with a meter or a light. If you see 12 VDC when the issue happens, the solenoid is bad This is a very common problem. You can purchase a new solenoid for $50 bucks.

Make sure that all the wires and terminal on the starter are clean and tight. Another common issue. That one is FREE!:lol::D

Attachment 48158594

BC

Thanks Bill

I had the car out tonight for a 30 mile ride and no problems. I started it at least six time and it was ok. I will put it up on the lift and check the wires on the starter. If it is the solenoid and it should stop again would hitting it with a hammer make it start?

IF,,,,,the solenoid is the cause of the issue, mechanically agitating it will cause it to start. The problem is getting to the starter / solenoid.

I use to keep a 3 foot metal rod insulated with a rubber wrap in the trunk, when she would act up, i would snake that rod down between the header tubes and whack the starter. She would start each time.

Numerous people read this post and then ask the question "HOW DO I REMOVE THE SWITCH???":willy:

Heres that answer:

Ignition Switch Replacement
Removal Procedure





Caution
Before servicing any electrical component, the ignition key must be in the OFF or LOCK position and all electrical loads must be OFF, unless instructed otherwise in these procedures. If a tool or equipment could easily come in contact with a live exposed electrical terminal, also disconnect the negative battery cable. Failure to follow these precautions may cause personal injury and/or damage to the vehicle or its components.


Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Apply the parking brake.
Remove the console. Refer to Compartment Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Compartment Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P)
Removal Procedure




Open the instrument panel (I/P) passenger compartment door.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the I/P compartment lamp switch.
Remove the trim plugs from the bottom of the compartment door. Reach behind the compartment door and push the plugs out. Use a suitable flat bladed tool on the front side to remove the plugs, if necessary.
Remove the lower retaining bolts from the I/P compartment.
Remove the side and upper retaining screws from the I/P compartment.



Slowly pull the I/P compartment just enough to disconnect the wiring harness connector from the inflatable restraint module switch.
Remove the I/P compartment.
Installation Procedure




Connect the wiring harness connector to the inflatable restraint I/P module switch connector.



Install the I/P compartment.
Loosely install the screw which retains the side of the I/P compartment, in order to align the nut on the passenger SIR bracket.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the upper retaining screw to the I/P compartment. Tighten
Tighten the retaining screw to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).

Install the lower retaining bolts to the I/P compartment. Tighten
Tighten the retaining bolts to 12 N·m (106 lb in).





Align and hold the I/P compartment to the I/P, then install the side retaining screw to the I/P compartment. Tighten
Tighten the retaining screw to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).

Install the trim plugs to the I/P compartment door.
Connect the electrical connector to the I/P compartment lamp switch.
Close the I/P passenger compartment door.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remove the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory
Removal Procedure




Apply the parking brake for additional clearance around the parking brake lever.
Shift the transmission into SECOND (A/T), or FOURTH (M/T).
Remove the console. Refer to Console Replacement .
Grasp the shift control boot (M/T) and apply light pressure in toward the shift control lever, to begin to release the shift boot retaining tabs from the instrument panel (IP) accessory trim plate.
Using light pressure, continue to release the remaining boot retaining tabs, then lift the boot away from the trim plate.



Open the cigar lighter door and remove the ashtray.
Remove the IP accessory trim plate grille. Pry gently at the side edge with a flat-bladed screwdriver to release the tab.



Remove the accessory trim plate retaining screws next to the cigar lighter and behind the ashtray.
Remove the accessory trim plate retaining screw in the grille opening.



Grasp the sides of the accessory trim plate near the curve at the base.
Pull the trim plate rearward to release the locking tabs. Lift the rear of the trim plate to clear the driveline tunnel studs.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the cigar lighter.



Rotate the shift control boot (M/T) and reposition one end down into the shifter opening in the trim plate.
Lift the accessory trim plate over the shifter (and shift control boot, M/T), and remove the trim plate.
Installation Procedure




Lower the IP accessory trim plate over the shifter and under the parking brake lever. Position the shift control boot (M/T) as during removal and insert the boot up through the shifter opening in the accessory trim plate.



Connect the electrical connector to the cigar lighter.



Install the trim plate into position. Align the locator tabs and the locking tabs to the slots.
Begin to install the upper locator tabs and the upper locking tabs, then work downward to install the remaining tabs. Install the rear of the trim plate onto the driveline tunnel studs.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the accessory trim plate retaining screws. Tighten
Tighten the IP accessory trim plate retaining screw next to cigar lighter to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).
Tighten the IP accessory trim plate retaining screw behind ashtray to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).
Tighten the IP accessory trim plate retaining screw in grille opening to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).




Install the accessory trim plate grille. Position the grille, then push to secure.
Install the ashtray.



Install the console. Refer to Console Replacement .
Align the shift control boot to the IP accessory trim plate opening, then press to lock the boot retaining tabs.
Adjust the shape of the boot for appearance, if necessary.
Shift the transmission into PARK (A/T), or REVERSE (M/T).
Release the parking brake.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Remove the driver knee bolster trim panel. Refer to Trim Panel Replacement - Knee Bolster .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Trim Panel Replacement - Knee Bolster
Removal Procedure




Remove the console. Refer to Console Replacement .
Remove the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
Remove the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch.
Pry carefully at the lower edge of the switch to release the locking tab.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the switch.




Remove the driver knee bolster trim panel retaining screw behind the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch.
Remove the driver knee bolster trim panel lower retaining screws.
Grasp the trim panel at the side edges.
Pull firmly rearward to release the locking tabs.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the inside air temperature sensor, if equipped.
Remove the trim panel.
Installation Procedure




Connect the electrical connector to the inside air temperature sensor, if equipped.
Insert the electrical connector for the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch through the opening in the trim panel.
Install the driver knee bolster trim panel.
If equipped, insert the inside air temperature sensor wire down into the driver knee bolster bracket to avoid pinching the wire.
Align the locking tabs to the slots.
Push the trim panel to secure.
Loosely install the screws retaining the bottom of the driver knee bolster trim panel, in order to align the nuts on the knee bolster bracket.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the remaining driver knee bolster trim panel retaining screw. Tighten
Tighten the driver knee bolster trim panel retaining screw behind fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch to 1.8 N·m (16 lb in).
Tighten the driver knee bolster trim panel lower retaining screws to 1.8 N·m (16 lb in).




Install the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch.
Connect the electrical connector to the switch.
Align the switch, then push to secure.
Install the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
Install the console. Refer to Console Replacement .

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Remove the ignition switch lock cylinder electrical connector from the retaining tab on the side of the ignition switch.



Disconnect the lock cylinder electrical connector.

Important
Take note of the way in which the ignition switch lock cylinder wire is wrapped around the base of the ignition switch bezel.


Remove the ignition switch bezel. Carefully pull to unsnap.



Remove the hazard warning switch wiring harness from the ignition switch retainer.



Disconnect the ignition switch electrical connectors.



Disconnect the park/lock cable (A/T) from the ignition switch.
Insert the key into the ignition switch, then turn the ignition to ON.
Using a flat bladed screwdriver or other suitable tool, depress the park/lock cable retaining tab (located on the underside of the switch near the base of the cable).
Pull to remove the cable.




Remove the ignition switch retaining bolts.
Remove the ignition switch.
Installation Procedure




Install the ignition switch into position on the ignition switch housing bracket.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the ignition switch retaining bolts. Tighten
Tighten the ignition switch retaining bolts to 5.5 N·m (49 lb in).





Install the park/lock cable (A/T) to the ignition switch (still in the ON position). Push to secure the cable retaining tab.



Connect the ignition switch electrical connections.



Install the hazard warning switch wiring harness to the ignition switch retainer.



Install the ignition switch bezel to the switch.
Wrap the ignition switch lock cylinder wire around the base of the ignition switch bezel, as noted during removal.
Align the bezel slots to the lock cylinder pins, then push to secure.
Connect the lock cylinder electrical connector.



Install the lock cylinder electrical connector to the retaining tab on the side of the ignition switch.
Install the driver knee bolster trim panel. Refer to Trim Panel Replacement - Knee Bolster .
Install the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
Install the console. Refer to Compartment Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) .
Connect the negative battery cable. Tighten
Tighten the negative battery cable bolt to 15 N·m (11 lb ft).

Program the transmitters. Refer to Transmitter Programming/Synchronization in Keyless Entry.
Release the parking brake.

Now you have the whole story!:thumbs:

BC

Ive seen THREE more ignition switch issues this week. Heres a bump for all the new people with this type of issue.

I Up-dated post to include Ignition switch removal procedures.

BC

Another good troubleshooting schematic. Read fuse 19 IPC to ground.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...peedometer.gif

subscribed!

i think im either having troubles with the starter or the ignition relay i think.
here is what my problems are: first off the car is a 2002 automatic.
when I put the key in and turn to the on position, all the gauges sweep normally
and I can hear the fuel pump working just fine as well as hear clicks from the passenger side footwell in that area. but when I turn it over to the start position, nothing starts! the fuel, and battery needles go to 0, however when I put the key to the on position, the security light stays on, but when i turn it all the way to start the car, it turns off.
this car is driving me nuts!!!:willy::willy:

The KEY to solving C5 NO CRANK issues is to examine the inputs and outputs of the Theft Deterrent Relay (TDR) The relay is in the passengers foot well behind the toe board. It has FOUR wires: Red Purple. yellow and yellow/black stripe. Heres the schematic that you will need to use:

Attachment 48157567

Make sure that you have the 12 VDC on the STARTER Fuse #52 & 12 VDC on the IGN2 Fuse # 50

Then check the red and purple wire on the relay. When you complete all the actions necessary to start the Eng the ignition key is in the CRANK/START position, you should have 12 VDC on the purple wire. That goes to the starter solenoid and allows the starter to start.

BC

and for the record, I dont have any display messages, and havent had any for about 2-3 months :)

do I use a multimeter?

Excellent. Use the ignition switch thread and in it are the fuses that you need to test to see if there is the correct voltages coming out of the ignition switch. Test the fuse voltages using the small test points on the top of each fuse to ground.

BC

i think the last time I read a schematic was when I was about 7 or 8 when I was playing with a scientific set :(

do you possibly have a picture of where this relay is behind the footboard?

Relay on the LEFT

Directly above the BCM on the fire wall. the relay on the LEFT

Attachment 48157565

Thanks Bill, after reading your thread I informed the dealer that my problem may be ignition, that was the first thing they checked and sure enough it was! The contacts looked just like the ones in your pictures. Ignition was replaced and all is well again.

Bill,

Your advice is golden. Fixed my C5-Z06 for 3 bucks:D

Bobby

:thumbs::thumbs: Glad to help!!

Did anyone in this thread end up getting to the point where they had to drill out the actual ignition? I still cannot get my key to turn, I had a new key cut using the VIN number and not my old worn key. Now, I can get both keys into the ignition but one of the little "tumblers" or "pins" inside feels and looks like it's loose...

I have everything all pulled apart and my car is just sitting in my work parking lot so I just need to know if I should just drill this thing out tomorrow morning?

I already have the new lock cylinder, my sand paper/pencil ready, new cylinder has been cut w/ matching key.

I just need that thing to spin so I can release the shift lock cable and the lock cylinder itself.

Thank you for any advice,

Donnie:willy:

I got it, thx anyway.

Donnie

HI, Bill I read your key switch repair info and I am wondering if you think this condition will set off a p1518? I have a 2002 convertible C5 I am having a code p1518 problem. Sometimes I will turn the key and it will not crank. Some times it will crank normally and not start after 6 or 7 tries. Other times the starter will engage and disengage the flywheel several times in matter of seconds. Sometimes I will get the car started and it will not move over 1 mph. I shut it down and restart it and it is back to starting and running normal. Sometimes it starts and runs fine. Sometimes I can hear the fuel pump and other times not. When I can hear the pump it always starts and runs perfectly normal. I am also having a problem that only occurs during the winter months. Every morning when I start the car it instantly tac’s up to about 25-2800 rpm's! And stays their for about 4 to 6 seconds I am afraid it is going to spin a bearing one of these days! So I am very likely going to simply stop driving it in winter. I am also along with the high rpm's getting the check engine light on sometimes it will stay on other times it will flash and then the computer will solve the problem and shut off the code "p0300" for random misfire! As soon as winter leaves so does the problem that is until winter comes back. I also get intermittently P1571, P1652 and P1689. Any help with the P1518 would be greatly appreciated. I live in El Paso Texas so it can’t be a corrosion problem. The cars never seen snow. And I have a new Optima battery. Oh for anybody with cracks in their wheels I got my wheel replaced for free I simply called GM and threatened them with a class action lawsuit because it is a safety issue! They had me drive the car to the closest Chevy dealer and they took a photo of the rim and I got a call from the dealer 4 days later telling me to come and get my free $800 wheel. It is amazing what you can accomplish with a simple lawsuit threat!

could this be my problem
 

Hi I am new to this site and just recently bought my dream car. A Chevy Corvette. My problem is is that 2 or three times a day it will not turn over. It does the full engine sweep and will not turn over. When aI go back to it later it does the sweep then starts. I took it to the dealer and they told m it was the ignition cylinder. but since I brought it there 3 days ago it has started every time. however they have not changed the ignition cylinder yet, it is backordered for 7 days. Plus they want $750.00 to fix my baby. Do you think that with them playing around with the ignition maybe cleaned the contacts, and that is why it is working now. Or should I go ahead and have them change the ignition cylinder. My last question is! they told me the new ignition cylinder comes pre progamed with a new key. Could I buy the part and change it myself or is this something the dealer should do.
Like I said I am new to this site and the Corvette family so any help would be much appreciated.
THANKS

Does your security light stay on? Mine does, but also does the same thing that happens to you. It usually doesnt give me a problem. Maybe 1 out of 10 key starts it won't turn over the engine. I just give it a few seconds and keep trying till it starts. I'm not replacing mine until it completely goes out. From what i hear its the contact key blocks that are inside the ignition cylinder, which are worn out. Basically you'll need a new ignition cylinder and a new set of keys. You can replace the cylinder very easily. There are many write ups on here. Just use the search function. Its no harder than changing out your brake pads. Good luck with your problem though.

HOLY CRAP!!! Hey,,,I have some NICE water front property in FLORIDA that you can have at a really reduced rate! :thumbs::thumbs: :lol::lol::lol:;)

Learn how to FIX YOUR OWN CAR!!!! Stay away from STEALERSHIPS!!!!!


Theres enough talent on this site that you can get guidance for almost ANYTHING! Hell,,,,theres enough people in your local area that will HELP you get it done for frigging FREE!:yesnod:

STOP hemorrhaging cash. Is NOT good for the rest of us!:(

Your issue is 90% NOT your ignition switch. Its your STARTER SOLENOID! The next time it happens, have some one WHACK the starter and if the starter comes to life, the solenoid is BAD! A new one is 50-60 clams.

BC

1/2 the time the light stays on even while I am driving. Do you think it is the ignition ylinder. Or do you think I should follow Bills steps above

So you are saying the security light does stay on? If so, that changes the game. Please disclose all information pertaining to your problem so people can give you the right advice.

The IGNITION switch has NOTHING to do with the SECURITY or THEFT DETERRENT!!!

The Ignition Key Resistor Sensor on the "FRONT" of the gnition key and the resistor pellet in the KEY does. If the pellet and or the sensor on the FRONT of the module dont work properly, it wll give you the same issues. Heres a PIC of the sensor on the FRONT of the ignition switch:

Attachment 48155686

Either the KEY resistor pellet is bad or the sensor is BAD.

BC

I love this Thread! Again thanks to Bill:D

Thanks,matt

I just fixed mine. This forum is the best! Bill Curlee, you da man!

What are the symptons of a bad ignition switch?

There are NUMEROUS symptoms but, lots of U series DTCs, failure of modules or systems to function. Low voltage on the Digital and IPC volt meter but good battery voltage at the battery.

Best way to test is measure the output of the fuses that the ignition switch (hot in on and start) feeds. The voltage should be BATTERY VOLTAGE. The worse shape that the contacts are in, the less voltage you will see

Another ignition problem for the experts
 

I am having a starting issue with my 2001, it is a "SOMETIMER" it will work fine, and then it will not work at all, it is like the car is dead! Replaced the battery, and now we,( my husband and I) are checking voltages on the fuses. We are check the IP fuses,( as you suggested in your post back in 08..) and it looks like we dont have a fuse in 22, ..hummm:0? see pictures.[IMG]http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...t1/fusepnl.jpg[/IMG]
Attachment 48154594
Any suggestions on why this fuse is missing? My corvette is an automatic, is this fuse use only if it has a manual trans? Thanks for the help in advance

The manual says "Body Control Module - Ignition 3", it says it on the label also, why your's is blank I don't know :crazy: I checked years 00', 01', 02', all say the same.

Regardless of the numbers on the fuses, just find the circuits that get energized when the ignition switch is in the ON or START position.

The circuit that 22 is on my car is the INJECTOR 1 fuse. Just find your injector fuses and that will be an ignition switched circuit. GM changes fuse numbers in different year C5's and they even change with different RPO options. Sorry for the confusion. :thumbs:



BC

Do you think that the Table that was on the Fuse comparment door could be a misprint? It shows nothing in 22, ... or maybe my Corvette is just a freak of nature.:ack:

Thanks Bill, I will pass it on to my husband,,,, we really appreciate the help.:D

:lol: In each year's service manual,, there are DOZENS or errors. Some are serious and cause damage if followed. So, having a misprint on one fuse lable is highly likely. :lol:

In GM, anything is possible. :rolleyes:

BC

Well we have finally decided that is must be the ignition, **Dang it**, I looked at your removal procedure, and it does not look like something that a novice ( like me) would want to try. I have worked on a lot of cars, but I have not torn into the interior much. How long does it usually take to remove the ignition?

If you've been driving the car all this time with no problem without the fuse then it's probably meant to be blank. If you follow Bill's advice & instructions you'll have her back on the road good as new :thumbs:

Center console removal :

Novice= 30 min Expierenced C5er, 10 min

Its really not that difficult.

Just keep thinking - Dealer labor $99/hr, Dealer labor $99/hr, Dealer labor $99/hr, Dealer labor $99/hr, Dealer labor $99/hr, Dealer labor $99/hr, Dealer labor $99/hr, :lol::lol:

After you say that a couple of times, it will be out!!

BC

Thanks so much for the quick reply Bill, I got a little worried when reading the removal instr, and it said things like, inflatable restraint module, Remove the I/P compartment, and what the heck is a driver knee bolster trim panel.:crazy:, I was wondering why I would have to remove anything in the console, like the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch,.. Thanks again, I will let you know how things turn out.

Knee bolster! :thumbs::D Thats the close out panel under the drivers dash area. Yea, it needs to be removed. Its easy! Its just a panel with a light connected to it. Pop out the light once its removed and BAM, its done.

You will be fine with the air bag stuff!:thumbs: Really not a concern.

remove that panel, the center console and you will be all set

ign. switch
 

This is a problem I have. It may ormay not be switch related. I open the door and all the door lights, dash lights come on as they should. Close door and all stay on. Turn ign. switch to on and they all work. Start the car and they all go out. Heads up works fine. All I show is odometer and radio station and a/c temp. Any answers?????

Did you check the brightness adjustment switch?

Yes..That was a thought. Nothing happens when you turn it. If that was the problem why do the lights go out only when the engine is running?

ignition switch
 

awesome thread bill! how much do you charge to perform a job like this? Can you repair mine? thanks!

The repair is actually very very easy. You might surprise your self if you try it. If you really feel that its beyond your ability, hell send it to me with return shipping and I will fix it for you.

BC

ignition switch
 

thanks bill, i'll let you know. i'll give it a try! thanks much!

I just replaced mine over the weekend. It's pretty easy getting the center console out. I've had mine out 3 or 4 times and I could probably do it blindfolded by now. Here's a link from Vette Essentials on how to remove the center console and the knee bolster. You really only need to follow it to about step 6 for this project. http://www.vetteessentials.com/instr...zel_howto.html (I hope it's OK to post this link)

I did run into a little trouble getting the key cylinder out of the switch. After I got the brake release cable out I removed the key. I didn't realize I needed to leave it in and in the 'On' position in order to get the key cylinder out.

ignition switch
 

thanks crooze!

I can't believe I read this entire thread. What great info. Add my name to the list for buying drinks for Bill C. Fabulous explanations. I will be starting in on my ignitions switch and lock tomorrow. Again, what a great thread. Thanks to all that have contributed.

Add me to the list of VERY happy corvette owners that finally found the answer to one of my biggest gremlin issues!! I can't thank Bill enough for the time he puts in on this forum! Took me an hour an a half to complete this job and I've never taken my dash apart.

I was pissed once I got in there though because it looks like the last owner let his 15 year old kid take the dash apart and didn't realize that american cars use screws and not those stupid plastic pop in pieces. Everywhere I took out a screw, there was a broken piece of the dash that came out with it. Oh well, I guess that's just me getting to know my baby.

JB Weld is your FRIEND when it comes to broken plactic dash parts. :D

BC

It's been a few weeks since I actually fixed my ignition switch but you can also add me to the list of repaired ignition switch problems.

I had some really weird issues because of this. Anything from no dash lights, to the DIC saying Low Voltage, to the car starting and then dying after two feet, to the car not starting at all. I have yet to see any of these problems again after fixing this switch. It took me all of 30 minutes to get the switch out and back in again. It was a super simple fix.

Here's another mythical six pack to Bill C. :cool: ;)

Well, it is finally done, thanks to Bill Curlee (and others). I replaced the ignition cylinder on my 1999 FRC and the car now starts and works fine. I will have to drive it for a couple of days just to make sure that it solved the problems but I am relatively sure it has. It was a straight forward fix, not much to it at all. About one hour for me and I am certainly not a technician. Bought the key cylinder on the net for $75.00 and had it re-keyed for an additional $15.00. So for $90.00 I now can drive again without having to worry about getting somewhere and not being able to start the Vette. Dealer said it would be about $400.00 for the fix. Thanks again to all who contributed to this thread, and especially to Bill. You all are a great bunch. Keep the wave going.

I did the entire procedure in about an hour! And believe me, I am a novice when it comes to electrical ch!t.

Nice

ignition switch
 

I was wondering if you remembered the name of the site on the NET where you bought your new ignition switch from???

Thanks for all the pics and stuff Bill. :thumbs:

I have been having the service active handling bs for about 2 years now (we will see if that stops happening) and since 2 weeks ago I was having a strange problem at WOT in 2nd gear......at 3k rpms the car would cut out completely for a second or three and then be ok with no codes at all. :(

Last night I turned a sharp right in second and punched it and the car did the same but totally died:eek: and every time I tried to restart it, it would fire then die ( about 30 times in a row).
I then disconnected the bat for 20 sec and after that it fired right up.:crazy:

This morning I pulled the ignition switch and cleaned and repaired it. After that I beat the car for 2 hours and it never happened again :D

Thanks for all the good info.

http://www.oehq.com/index.cfm?showpa...artsearch2.cfm

I bought the key cylinder here and you can also get the ignition switch.

Another beneficiary of Bill's explanations
 

Today I experienced my first ever no-start condition in my '04 -- everything normal in the On position, turn to Start position and everything goes totally dark. Theft relay clicks as the clutch pedal is pushed out/in. Starter solenoid connections checked and found tight. New battery in verified good condition.

Eventually the car started, before I had a chance to put a voltmeter on the Theft relay to see whether the issue is the ignition switch or the starter solenoid. If it no-starts again, that's the first check.

I'm not sure whether the engine started because I was moving the key around, or because I held it in the start position long enough to have solenoid finally kick in -- but either way, I would not have been nearly as far along as I am now without Bill's starting this thread :thumbs::cheers:

This sounds like the issues I keep having.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-s...ac-issues.html

Well atleast it gives me another option to investigate.

C5 Ignition Switch Repair
 

If anyone has any of these symptoms, follow Bill's advice and get the switch out and clean it up. My switch started to act up about a week ago more than ever (had some sporadic issues before) and it started to get worse in the last few days. (reduced engine power, traction control messages, etc etc) Even got the reduced engine feature after throwing on some new rubber in the garage yesterday....tire tech had to come get me to back her out.... (Cleared the codes, came back to life), took her home and followed Bill's sermon on this....Found dirty carbon on the contacts, cleaned everything all up (loved the sandpaper on the pencil trick Bill!! :cheers:) and put things back together. Thought for sure I nailed it thanks again to Bill and the forum.

BUT, after getting everything back together and trying to start her up, I got nothing! :willy: long story short after taking a good look at things again, and pulling B2723, I noticed that the two white VATS wires got twisted during the work and they didn't look right....looked like the wires may be broken inside the plastic housing, so I took everything out knowing that you're dead without this great feature, cut the bad section out (which happen to be right by the ignition switch, a small ordeal in itself) soldered the wires and shrinkwrapped the finish product. - put it all back together and the 1st start was music to my ears....and 2nd, 3rd, 4th. etc

Thanks again to Bill and all forum members that chime in on their experiences and advice which keep our babies at home and not paying the ransom at any stealership. :flag::smash::hurray:

:thumbs:

:eek: WOW :eek:
I know this is an old post but i'm a new guy and i'm still exploring !

What an amazing, well explained and detailed procedure !
I'll have to keep this one for future referrence !

Nice JOB Bill :thumbs:

I found this thread after doing a search for non-start issues, after disabling the VATS through the computer with HPTuners I was still having the non-start issue, therefore eliminating the VATS as my problem I turned to the ignition switch. I replaced my switch with a new one but took the time to open up the old one after finding this thread.

THANKS Bill.:thumbs::cheers:

Here's what my old one looked like:

Attachment 48151845
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...Switch/SW1.jpg
Attachment 48151846
Attachment 48151847
Attachment 48151848
Attachment 48151849
Attachment 48151850

Thanks Bill!!!

I took mine apart and cleaned it today, have been having the no start issues more lately. I'm sure this is the fix!!

Thanks Bill!!!:thumbs:

:cheers:
JB

Hey guys,
My car was not shutting after long runs. Cleaned the ignition switch and the same contacts as above were much darker. Car shuts off everytime. Its a great feeling when what seems to be a big issue is so minor and free!

Thanks
Mark

This thread should be added to the ultimate DIY sticky... I was surprised it wasn't already there.

When I explore and take things apart and repair them, I sometimes leave out steps or things that I take for granted cause it is second nature to me. So,, after several people have had to RE WORK there ignition several times, I took a step back and attempted to figure out what could have went wrong with their repair.

Here are some steps that I believe will help make the repair work better and the switch handle a little more current!:thumbs:

Some additional guidance on the ignition switch repair.

Remember to re-arch the movable switch contacts so that they have better contact with the fixed contact point. Once there re-arched, you will need to use a hook (I used a bent paper clip) to ASSIST the arms over the FIXED contacts when your sliding them back into place!

Once the switch movable contact arms are in place, insert a piece of 600 grit wet and dry paper between the closed contacts and with a small pair of needle nose pliers or a pair of tweezers (I use a small pair of curved hemostats),, Move the sand paper between the contacts while applying some pressure on top of the movable arm. Switch to 1000 grit and polish the contacts. Clean the contacts with alcohol.

What your doing is making the CONTACT AREA of that single switch larger than it was. That will give the contact more current carrying ability and better contact. Do that to each of the FIVE switches....

REMEMBER!! Measure the resistance of EACH of the newly cleaned, re-arched, sanded and polished and cleaned contacts to make sure you have very very close to ZERO ohms resistance when the contacts are shut! If you have resistance, go back and CLEAN the contacts with alcohol again



Bill

Bill, FANTASTIC thread! I have a ~120k mile '02Z and will probably clean up my ignition switch just for peace of mind. Fluctuating voltage concerns lead me to this thread, but a few months ago I also had a one-time sporatic "Charge System Fault" message that has yet to return. It always starts fine, no other issues that I'm aware of (yet!).

A question for you; When the contacts are cleaned up would you reccomend using a dab of dielectric grease on the contacts?

I've made a point of lubing all connectors with dielectric grease to help eliminate corrosion, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea on a switching contact or not. Advice?

NO. Dielectric grease is an insulator, not a conductor. Dielectric grease is acceptable as a topical treatment only i.e. over battery terminals, grounds, etc. It should not be used in electrical connectors, or contact interfaces.

EDIT: LOL... Lucky beat me again while I was looking for that link...

I'm not Bill... But NO. Do not use dielectric grease on electrical connectors. Dielectric grease does not conduct electricity. Clean it off of whatever electrical connectors you have applied it to.

Here's some reading for you: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-dielectric-grease.htm

Here's a quote from that wisegeek page:

"While the indicated use of dielectric grease calls for it to be used only on the non-metal parts of a connection, it has been shown to be effective at preventing corrosion when applied directly to the metal connectors as well. Care should be taken when using it in this way, because this application can, in some instances, cause the connection to stop working. A common reason for such a failure is that the grease has not been pushed entirely out of the way between the two points of contact."

This is why I've been using it inside connectors. Specifically, I put a little inside the female terminals so the male ends have to push through it when the connector is pushed together.

I've been doing this ever since I discovered that corroded fuel injector connector pins were causing weird problems at the drag strip... the car would run great out of the hole, then in 3rd gear it would lay down. Best time one night was 12.1 @ 112 MPH. 112 MPH in good air is pretty slow for a Z.

Researched, lubed all eight fuel injector connector's pins, pushed the connectors on and off a few times and have never had a problem since (traps instantly went up to 116 MPH and the car would pull cleanly through third and fourth). That was in 2004, the year I bought the car.

A sliding connection would not allow any significant amount of dielectric grease to keep a male/female pin/socket type of connection from happening... at least it seems to be working well for me.

BUT, knowing this (dielectric grease is an insulator) now I will definitely not apply dielectric grease to the contacts in the ignition switch. This type of contact seems as though it could definitely be affected by grease holding the contacts apart.

Thanks for the link! :cheers:

Sounds like you have it all figured out. :thumbs:

Do what works for you, but I would not put that on electrical contacts of any kind. An occasional use of emery cloth is, IMHO, a much better method of dealing with corrosion on electrical connectors that are exposed to the elements than a compound that is specifically designed NOT to conduct electricity...

Read the sentence immediately after the one you bolded. I'm not trying to be insulting or argumentative, but one of the main reasons why dielectric grease is such a great choice for things like spark plug boots is because it will not conduct electricity. That's not a the most ideal characteristic of a compound for use on electrical connectors. You want them to be made of the most conductive stuff plausible for the application.

^Got it. I guess if I ever start having issues with poor connections I will first clean any grease that may be present.

Once again, thanks for the info!

:iagree:I NEVER put Dielectric Grease in any electrical contact joint. Its a fantastic rubber lubricant and keeps moisture out of sealing gaskets, and you can apply it to electrical joints that have already been made like ( :iagree: ) battery terminal connectors and chassis ground terminals.

A great anti corrosion agent are some of the marine products. Here is one that I have used with outstanding results and zero issues:

Attachment 48150315

The ignition switch is not failing from contact corrosion. Their failing from poor contact and that causes contact heat and contact arcing. The arcing causes the contacts to carbon up and produce a high resistance contact point.

When you rebuild the switch, you can re-arch the contact arm to make better contact with the fixed contact point. You can also resurface the contacts using wet and dry paper to get more contact between the two contacts. That will enable the contacts to flow more current and produce less heat. I updated the post to include the procedure for sanding the contacts to provide more surface contact between the switches.

Bill

Thanks Bill!

I rebuilt my ignition switch tonight. No difference in DIC voltages, and I wasn't experiencing any strange DTCs, just thought it would be good PM.

Instead of bending the contact arms for better contact, I bent the extra "springs" that push on the back of the contact arms... I figured that's what they are there for anyway. This may have made reassembly easier as well, I didn't have any issues with contacts getting hung up and requiring lifting to get in place. Something you may want to try out the next time you're rebuilding a switch!

Once again, thanks for your GREAT tutorial and your insightful schematic diagnostics! This forum (and its owners/operators) all owe you BIGTIME! If you ever get seriously lost and for some reason wind up in Ottawa I'll be buying you a nice steak dinner!

Bill; Sent PM
Karl

Thanks Bill
Put in a new battery and reprogrammed the key and it seems to be OK. I'll taks some trial runs tomorrow. I've had the car since November 1997 and it has 133000 miles.
The DIC codes (all History) after installing the new battery are:
C1255H
B0503H
B0508H
B2721H
B2735H
U1096H
B2282H
B2284H
U1064H
B2283H
B2285H
B0851H
U1160H
U1255H
From what I can tell from the manual B2721 and B2735 might be related to the ignition switch.
Thanks for your help.
Karl

133,000 MILES!:eek::eek: WOW! :thumbs::rock::cheers::flag:

If you overhaul your IGNITION SWITCH,,,,,,,,,,,,, you will think you have a new car!!!! :thumbs::cheers:

Clear ALL those OLD codes and monitor what comes back and work n the DTC that come back elimination!

Keep those wheels a turning!

BC

Many Thanks for your help, I'll work the switch next week.
BTW Does the switch also control the shift on an automatic? I have been having trouble putting the car in gear from the Park position after starting.

I do not have or have ever owned an AUTOMATIC C5. However,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I have some info that can help. YES,, there is a PARK Nuteral detent cable that prevents you from shifting out of PARK unless the BRAKE is applied.

Heres a pic of that cabel on the IGNITION SWITCH:

Attachment 48150114

Attachment 48150115

If you have a SERVICE MANUAL,,,,,,,,,,, the adjustment procedure is in there! Yes it can effect shifting out of PARK!

BC

Thought that might be the case, i'll work on that as well. Took the car out for a run and it hesitates like it is going to stall and I got a B2721C code (nice to know the codes can be checked while driving), I'm sure replacing the ignition switch will take care of that.
Again thanks for your help.

C5 starting problem
 

My 02 sometimes requires me to turn the key many times before the starter will engage. The dash lights all come on but turning the key to start doesn't do a thing. It doesn't happen all the time and it doesn't matter if the motor is cold or warm. Mechanic wants to replace the starter. I'm not so sure after reading about the ignition switch. Could the switch be the culprit this time? Thanks for your input.

I told the mechanic that I'm not replacing a perfectly good starter. I showed him the picture of the solenoid with corroded connections. He thought for a few minutes and remembered his 99 Vette had a problem that was similar. He told me the next time it happened to jiggile the key in the start position. It worked. For a measly $53 I bought a new AC Delco switch. For that kind of money I would not mess with repairing one.

Rabbi

I stopped telling people what "measly" was a LONG time ago!! SAVING $50 could be the difference between driving to work or bumming a ride..

BC

Has anyone made the mistake and taken the back side of the switch off the cylinder ignition like I did? Or would anyone know how to properly place these brass rods/springs that I mixed up?

There are 5 brass rods and 3 springs. Not sure what goes where......

Attachment 48147818

I have never taken the BACK of the switch apart!! Theres really no need to

DON'T!! I repeat DO NOT TAKE THE BACK OF THE SWITCH APART!!

Reason,,,,,,,, There is NO, NADA, NILCH, ZERO reason to! There are not any electrical connections that are serviceable there.

On that note,, seminoles2005,,, your in luck. I will forgo my recommendation that I just gave above and take my spare switch apart just so people who make the mistake of disassembling the wrong end will have a way to correct their mistake. :D:thumbs::rock:

:toetap::toetap:

SOAB! :willy::rofl: I can see why I never removed the bottom mechanical side of the switch!:eek::crazy2:

All those plastic snaps are a royal pain in the ass to get un done without breaking them or up-setting the pins inside. I have a plan,, so "PLEASE STAND BY" :thumbs::D

BC

A dim bulb mechanic changed my switch, and now my security light is on most of the time. It turns off at start, than turns on during the drive. Sometimes it just stays on all the time. Once in a while it looks to be working as it should.

What security , (or other ) issues is this effecting? Any ideas on how to correct this?

Because of the quality of the work, They only charged for parts. I still feel ripped off, and should have read this post first.

Now I have some sort of bypass on the key resister and I don't know what else. I guess it is hard to explain what you don't understand , I couldn't get a straight story out of the service writer.

The car starts but the security light is on most of the time. Is this effecting any theft stuff? Even if it were no big deal, replacing the bulb behind the dash because it was on all the time and burned out, is not my idea of a satisfying time.

I do not know what I was thinking. I should have read some more rather than taking on the task in removing the cylinder. I thought there was something at the bottom of this thing I had to remove in order to release the cylinder.

It wasn't until after I removed it that I realized there was a little button you press with the key in the cylinder turned half way that will release it. Dumb mistake of mine for sure.

I thought about going to a junk yard and removing this part from a camaro(hoping they are similar) and seeing if the switch is the same so I can properly match all the springs to the right holes.

And it was a PITA removing all those tabs without breaking them. Way too much work for something that was so not needed.

If you can remove your spare switch without messing everything up like I did I will greatly appreciate it Bill!

ignition switch
 

I put in a new AC Delco and it worked well for about 2 weeks and then started giving trouble again. The end result is to put electrial contact cleaner or WD 40 on the key and sliding it in and out, wiping and respraying each time. Before I had a chance to do this, it acted up again and I licked the key and it worked. One repair shop told me the switch needed to be linked to the computer. LOL

PM sent should help. Let me know.

Thanks guys for the replies. Didn't think of the ignition switch, but going to check it out now.

my 99 frc , has started while driving most gauges go dead ,( not tach and speedo ) traction control goes active radio turns off security light comes on , should I check / clean contacts or look at the bcm , I saw a procedure to seset bcm somewhere , my car has 189k + miles and the previous owner was hard on the car and I have been repairing little things as I go , the pnly code that shows up is secondary air injection code

well went and took the BCM out of the car and pulled the circuit board out and looked at it , could not see anything abnormal . found where the tabs that clamp the circuit board and where the screw hold it were dirty so I cleaned those areas and bent tabs to clamp tighter . went and test drove about 20 miles and never lost power to gauges and radio

Well, I'm still in the middle of trying to figure out the no-start issues with my '04, but I will say this - at only 16,500 miles on my car, the ignition contacts were already pitted. Though that repair didn't solve my problem, it's interesting to note how early this actually starts (oh, and how easy this whole repair really is). Cleaned my 101 and 102 grounds, and still nothing. Hitting the fuses now...just got my multimeter back :toetap: