C5 Ignition Switch Repair
 

C5 Ignition Switch Repair

by Bill Curlee

There have been quite a few forum members with IGNITION SWITCH failure. There are a number of different symptoms to indicate that the switch is bad.

I helped FASTVETZO6 ( Mark) troubleshoot his problem down to the ignition switch. After replacement of the ignition switch, his problems were resolved. He mailed his old switch to me and I have dissected it, figured out why they fail and detailed the switch repair!:thumbs:

Thanks for the switch Mark! You made my weekend!:flag:

Here is the switch removed from the car The ignition lock cylinder has been removed. This is how you will receive the new switch from GM:

Attachment 48164994

Attachment 48164995

Attachment 48164996

Looks complicated but its really very simple. The first step is to use an ohm meter to see if the switch is really bad before disassembly. I have included a hand drawn schematic of the switch PLEASE excuse the roughness of the drawing.

Attachment 48164997

Use an ohm meter and ohm out each contact. You will need to cycle the switch through OFF, ACC, ON and Crank. Each contact point should be 0-1 ohms. Marks switch was reading 2500 + ohms on contacts 5 & D and 2000 ohms on contacts 3 & E.

( NOTE! The contact letters and numbers do NOT correspond to the C5 schematics. I added my own letters and numbers to help explain the drawing!

The switch contacts in the center area of the switch are the contacts that tell the BCM if the ignition KEY is inserted in the ignition cylinder or not.

Once you determine that the contacts are good or bad, remove the top GREEN cover to expose the switch contacts. The cover is easily removed by prying up the tabs "evenly" with a screwdriver.

Attachment 48164998

Once the cover is off, this is what you will see:

Attachment 48164999

Lift out the movable contact strips noting how the movable contacts and springs on top of the contact arms are assembled. The springs can and will fall off the arms!:rolleyes:

Once the contacts are out, this is what you will see:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...DSCF0019-1.jpg

In Marks switch you can see TWO distinct burnt contacts. Those were the bad contacts.

Attachment 48165000

Attachment 48165001

The small brass pins just inside the fixed contacts are the pins that move UP & DOWN to operate the contacts.

The section of the switch below the section shown in the pictures above only contains the cam to move the brass pins UP & DOWN to operate the movable switch arms and contain NO electrical contacts. There is no need to disassemble this portion of the switch. When you rotate the switch the brass contacts will move UP or DOWN with each position of the switch.

There is a legend next to the hand drawn schematic that explains how the pins operate when the switch is moved through the various positions of the ignition switch.

I believe that the movable contact arms loose spring tension and cause poor contact and that results in contact arcing. Here is what the arms looked like when removed. The arm is slightly bent back wards:

Attachment 48165002

Here is the burnt contacts on the arms:

Attachment 48165003

Attachment 48165004

Attachment 48165005

I used 2000 grit wet & dry sand paper to clean the fixed and movable contacts. Polish the contacts clean to remove carbon and pitting.

Attachment 48165006

Once there polished clean, wipe them down with alcohol.


(Part 2 continued in next post)

Here are all the contacts cleaned up:

Attachment 48164984

I used a mechanical pencil with sand paper glued to the eraser to clean the fixed contacts. The eraser was trimmed down to fit the recess in the switch housing:

Attachment 48164985

Attachment 48164986

Once the contacts are cleaned up, bend the contact arms so that they apply more tension on the fixed contacts. It doesn't need too much bending:

Attachment 48164987

Once you apply more tension to the contacts, you will need to be careful when reinserting the arms back into the switch. The movable contact pads will tend to hang up on the fixed contacts. Assist them over the fixed contacts. I used a hooked paper clip to raise the arm over the fixed contact.

I used two flat blade screwdrivers to apply force to contacts A & B inside the switch contact well to keep the contact arms forced down on the fixed contacts to prevent them from popping out of place while installing the green cap. Once the contacts are in place,

Attachment 48164988

snap the green cap back on the switch. Check the CLEANED contacts with an ohm meter. They should read very close to ZERO OHMS.

Please feel free to ask me any questions that you have. I feel I'm a IGNITION SWITCH expert now! :D :thumbs:

Marks old NASTY broken switch is as good as new!!!!!!!!!!;) :yesnod: :smash: :thumbs:

* NOTE!!!!! UP_DATED 10 Sep 2012:

Some DO's and DONT's


1. It is NOT necessary to disassemble the lower portion of the switch!! There is NOTHING in there electrical related!

2. Electrical contact cleaning: Deeply pitted contacts can be cleaned using 400 Wet & Dry paper but should be polished with finer & finer grits to a highly polished surface 400, 600, 800 1000 grit wet & dry paper and cleaned with alcohol when done polishing. If there not deeply pitted start with 800 grit. It is strongly recommended to assemble the switch contact arms and place sand paper between the contacts. Apply force on the movable contact arm and pull the sand paper THRU the contacts. This will seat the upper and lower contacts and put a larger contact patch on the contacts. The larger the contact patch on the switch contacts allow the contacts to pass higher currents before over heating!

3. Measure the repaired contacts with an OHM METER before reassembly!! If you dont have ZERO ohms, figure out why and fix it! Make sure that the OHM Meter is on the ohms X1 Scale or in auto mode and your really are reading ONE OHM or less. Cycle the switch several times and make sure you get constant good resistance readings!

4. When you insert the key into the switch lock tumbler, the end of the key pushes on the small button on the center of the tumbler well. Its important that you test the operation of that switch as it tells the BCM when the key is in or out of the switch/tumbler.

5. On the front of the tumbler is a small sensor. Inside that sensor are two small silver coated contacts. Those contacts read the resistor pellet embeded in your key. Measure the pellet in your key. insert the key into the sensor and measure the output of the sensor with the key in it. The two readings should match. If they dont the sensor contacts are dirty or damaged.

BC



Heres the procedure for removing the ignition switch from the dash:

Ignition Switch Replacement
Removal Procedure





Caution
Before servicing any electrical component, the ignition key must be in the OFF or LOCK position and all electrical loads must be OFF, unless instructed otherwise in these procedures. If a tool or equipment could easily come in contact with a live exposed electrical terminal, also disconnect the negative battery cable. Failure to follow these precautions may cause personal injury and/or damage to the vehicle or its components.


Disconnect the negative battery cable.
Apply the parking brake.
Remove the console. Refer to Compartment Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Compartment Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P)
Removal Procedure




Open the instrument panel (I/P) passenger compartment door.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the I/P compartment lamp switch.
Remove the trim plugs from the bottom of the compartment door. Reach behind the compartment door and push the plugs out. Use a suitable flat bladed tool on the front side to remove the plugs, if necessary.
Remove the lower retaining bolts from the I/P compartment.
Remove the side and upper retaining screws from the I/P compartment.



Slowly pull the I/P compartment just enough to disconnect the wiring harness connector from the inflatable restraint module switch.
Remove the I/P compartment.
Installation Procedure




Connect the wiring harness connector to the inflatable restraint I/P module switch connector.



Install the I/P compartment.
Loosely install the screw which retains the side of the I/P compartment, in order to align the nut on the passenger SIR bracket.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the upper retaining screw to the I/P compartment. Tighten
Tighten the retaining screw to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).

Install the lower retaining bolts to the I/P compartment. Tighten
Tighten the retaining bolts to 12 N·m (106 lb in).





Align and hold the I/P compartment to the I/P, then install the side retaining screw to the I/P compartment. Tighten
Tighten the retaining screw to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).

Install the trim plugs to the I/P compartment door.
Connect the electrical connector to the I/P compartment lamp switch.
Close the I/P passenger compartment door.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remove the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory
Removal Procedure




Apply the parking brake for additional clearance around the parking brake lever.
Shift the transmission into SECOND (A/T), or FOURTH (M/T).
Remove the console. Refer to Console Replacement .
Grasp the shift control boot (M/T) and apply light pressure in toward the shift control lever, to begin to release the shift boot retaining tabs from the instrument panel (IP) accessory trim plate.
Using light pressure, continue to release the remaining boot retaining tabs, then lift the boot away from the trim plate.



Open the cigar lighter door and remove the ashtray.
Remove the IP accessory trim plate grille. Pry gently at the side edge with a flat-bladed screwdriver to release the tab.



Remove the accessory trim plate retaining screws next to the cigar lighter and behind the ashtray.
Remove the accessory trim plate retaining screw in the grille opening.



Grasp the sides of the accessory trim plate near the curve at the base.
Pull the trim plate rearward to release the locking tabs. Lift the rear of the trim plate to clear the driveline tunnel studs.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the cigar lighter.



Rotate the shift control boot (M/T) and reposition one end down into the shifter opening in the trim plate.
Lift the accessory trim plate over the shifter (and shift control boot, M/T), and remove the trim plate.
Installation Procedure




Lower the IP accessory trim plate over the shifter and under the parking brake lever. Position the shift control boot (M/T) as during removal and insert the boot up through the shifter opening in the accessory trim plate.



Connect the electrical connector to the cigar lighter.



Install the trim plate into position. Align the locator tabs and the locking tabs to the slots.
Begin to install the upper locator tabs and the upper locking tabs, then work downward to install the remaining tabs. Install the rear of the trim plate onto the driveline tunnel studs.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the accessory trim plate retaining screws. Tighten
Tighten the IP accessory trim plate retaining screw next to cigar lighter to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).
Tighten the IP accessory trim plate retaining screw behind ashtray to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).
Tighten the IP accessory trim plate retaining screw in grille opening to 1.9 N·m (17 lb in).




Install the accessory trim plate grille. Position the grille, then push to secure.
Install the ashtray.



Install the console. Refer to Console Replacement .
Align the shift control boot to the IP accessory trim plate opening, then press to lock the boot retaining tabs.
Adjust the shape of the boot for appearance, if necessary.
Shift the transmission into PARK (A/T), or REVERSE (M/T).
Release the parking brake.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Remove the driver knee bolster trim panel. Refer to Trim Panel Replacement - Knee Bolster .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Trim Panel Replacement - Knee Bolster
Removal Procedure




Remove the console. Refer to Console Replacement .
Remove the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
Remove the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch.
Pry carefully at the lower edge of the switch to release the locking tab.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the switch.




Remove the driver knee bolster trim panel retaining screw behind the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch.
Remove the driver knee bolster trim panel lower retaining screws.
Grasp the trim panel at the side edges.
Pull firmly rearward to release the locking tabs.
Disconnect the electrical connector from the inside air temperature sensor, if equipped.
Remove the trim panel.
Installation Procedure




Connect the electrical connector to the inside air temperature sensor, if equipped.
Insert the electrical connector for the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch through the opening in the trim panel.
Install the driver knee bolster trim panel.
If equipped, insert the inside air temperature sensor wire down into the driver knee bolster bracket to avoid pinching the wire.
Align the locking tabs to the slots.
Push the trim panel to secure.
Loosely install the screws retaining the bottom of the driver knee bolster trim panel, in order to align the nuts on the knee bolster bracket.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the remaining driver knee bolster trim panel retaining screw. Tighten
Tighten the driver knee bolster trim panel retaining screw behind fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch to 1.8 N·m (16 lb in).
Tighten the driver knee bolster trim panel lower retaining screws to 1.8 N·m (16 lb in).




Install the fog lamp, rear compartment lid release switch.
Connect the electrical connector to the switch.
Align the switch, then push to secure.
Install the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
Install the console. Refer to Console Replacement .

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Remove the ignition switch lock cylinder electrical connector from the retaining tab on the side of the ignition switch.



Disconnect the lock cylinder electrical connector.

Important
Take note of the way in which the ignition switch lock cylinder wire is wrapped around the base of the ignition switch bezel.


Remove the ignition switch bezel. Carefully pull to unsnap.



Remove the hazard warning switch wiring harness from the ignition switch retainer.



Disconnect the ignition switch electrical connectors.



Disconnect the park/lock cable (A/T) from the ignition switch.
Insert the key into the ignition switch, then turn the ignition to ON.
Using a flat bladed screwdriver or other suitable tool, depress the park/lock cable retaining tab (located on the underside of the switch near the base of the cable).
Pull to remove the cable.




Remove the ignition switch retaining bolts.
Remove the ignition switch.
Installation Procedure




Install the ignition switch into position on the ignition switch housing bracket.

Notice
Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.


Install the ignition switch retaining bolts. Tighten
Tighten the ignition switch retaining bolts to 5.5 N·m (49 lb in).





Install the park/lock cable (A/T) to the ignition switch (still in the ON position). Push to secure the cable retaining tab.



Connect the ignition switch electrical connections.



Install the hazard warning switch wiring harness to the ignition switch retainer.



Install the ignition switch bezel to the switch.
Wrap the ignition switch lock cylinder wire around the base of the ignition switch bezel, as noted during removal.
Align the bezel slots to the lock cylinder pins, then push to secure.
Connect the lock cylinder electrical connector.



Install the lock cylinder electrical connector to the retaining tab on the side of the ignition switch.
Install the driver knee bolster trim panel. Refer to Trim Panel Replacement - Knee Bolster .
Install the IP accessory trim plate. Refer to Trim Plate Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Accessory .
Install the console. Refer to Compartment Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) .
Connect the negative battery cable. Tighten
Tighten the negative battery cable bolt to 15 N·m (11 lb ft).

Program the transmitters. Refer to Transmitter Programming/Synchronization in Keyless Entry.
Release the parking brake.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you "THINK" you have an ignition switch issue, you can use a volt meter and measure the output of the ignition switch.

There are TWO voltages that power the critical modules in our cars. One is "HOT AT ALL TIMES" and the other is "HOT in ACC and ON". When you turn the ignition switch to ON, you can read the fuses listed below and you should see exactly what the battery puts out. If the electrical contacts inside the switch are burnt, there will be resistance in the circuit and the voltage output of the switch will be lower or even zero.

On top of the fuses are two small holes that you can insert pin point meter leads into and read that fuse terminal. MAKE SURE to read both holes. If the fuse happens to be blown, only the battery side will have voltage on it.:thumbs:

Heres another troubleshooting tip: If you read across the fuse; If it good, you should read ZERO VOLTS!:yesnod: If its bad, you will read BATTERY VOLTAGE.

Heres the schematic for the START /Crank side of the switch:

Attachment 48164989

Heres the schematic for the IPC and the voltage that you see on the IPC Volt Meter:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...peedometer.gif


Here are the fuses powered by the "HOT in ACC and ON". part of the switch:

Ok,,,here are the fuses that your going to check:

Under Hood Fuse Center

ENG ING1 FUSE# 19

INJR 2 FUSE# 18

THROTCONT FUSE# 17

INJR 1 FUSE# 22

PCM FUSE# 16

F/PMP FUSE# 13

Instrument Panel Fuse block

BTSI BU Fuse# 21
BCM 13 Fuse# 22
IPC Fuse# 19

Check the VOLTAGE on these fuses when the ignition is in the ON position. There should be battery voltage on these fuses.


Another ignition switch troubleshooting aid is; If the engine will run when you HOLD the ignition switch to the CRANK position but dies when you release the key, the switch could be at fault.

SOME UP DATED Switch repair info Sep 2011:

Some additional guidance on the ignition switch repair.

Remember to re-arch the movable switch contacts so that they have better contact with the fixed contact point. Once there re-arched, you will need to use a hook (I used a bent paper clip) to ASSIST the arms over the FIXED contacts when your sliding them back into place!

Once the switch movable contact arms are in place, insert a piece of 600 grit wet and dry paper between the closed contacts and with a small pair of needle nose pliers or a pair of tweezers (I use a small pair of curved hemostats),, Move the sand paper between the contacts while applying some pressure on top of the movable arm. Switch to 1000 grit and polish the contacts. Clean the contacts with alcohol.

What your doing is making the CONTACT AREA of that single switch larger than it was. That will give the contact more current carrying ability and better contact. Do that to each of the FIVE switches....

REMEMBER!! Measure the resistance of EACH of the newly cleaned, re-arched, sanded and polished and cleaned contacts to make sure you have very very close to ZERO ohms resistance when the contacts are shut! If you have resistance, go back and CLEAN the contacts with alcohol again

Here are a FEW UPDATES that have been added as we refine this repair process:

Recommned that you obtain some 600 grit wet and dry sand paper. Cut a strip about 6" long X 3/4" wide. Fold it in half so that you have sand paper on both sides. Work the sand paper in between all the contacts on one side of the switch. Pull and push the sand paper between the stationary contacts and movable contact arms. Doing this will lap in a bigger contact area between the two contacts thus allowing the switch to carry a bigger current load without heating up. When you are done lapping the contacts on one side, lap the other side.

NOTE! Make sure that you recheck the contact pressure on the contach arms to insure that they are still making firm contact. Clean the contacts and recheck the resistance of each switch.

NOTE! The Electrical connectors with FEMALE PINS that pulg into the Ignition Switch can spread and male poor connection with the male pins inside the switch. Check the female pins inside the two power connectors:

Attachment 48164990

Once you sand the burned marks off the bent female pins, rebend them back so that the tong makes better contact with the male pins inside the switch. There are TWO damaged large pins in the black plug and one on the white plug.

Bill

Update 24 May 13

I have to admit that; just because the ignition switch contacts look burnt, they still could be fine. The problem occurs when the contacts start building resistance from the carbon, poor contact continuity and burnt contacts.

That excessive resistance causes the 12 VDC battery voltage supplied to the switch and controlled by those contacts to be something LESS than full battery voltage. If the switch is marginally defective, it may work one ignition sequence and fail horribly the next. Please check the ignition switch resistance AND electrical output after cycling it several times.

Most of the problems with our ignition switches are, the contacts do not close perfectly parallel and after thousands of OPEN/SHUT cycles, the contact arms heat up and loose tension. That’s when the resistance starts building and the switch contacts generate excessive heat and degraded voltage outputs.

Before any ignition switch is rebuilt/repaired, you should measure the closed contacts with an OHM Meter and see what you have resistance wise. Measuring all the contacts requires cycling the switch thru all of its available positions. Write down the resistance value before repair and then again after repair.

When you repair/rebuild the switch, re-arch the movable contact arms so that they shut with more pressure.

One of the reasons that the contacts get hot is, some circuits draw a moderate amounts of current. If the contacts don’t close perfectly parallel, there is only a very small contact point for the current to flow thru. That causes heat and excessive arching when the contacts shut.

Im going to reassemble a switch and slide some wet and dry sand paper between the closed contacts and work the paper between the contacts to LAP the contacts so that they have a larger contact point

NOTE! Anytime you clean/sand or file any electrical contact, you should finish the surface as smooth as you can and before finial reassembly, clean the contacts with isopropyl alcohol so that there is no grease or grit between the contacts.

As always, CHECK THE RESISTANCE of each contact in the switch (you have to cycle it thru all it positions) and make sure that it is not excessive. When you re-arch the movable arms, if you are TOO AGGRESSIVE, the switch contacts will never open when the arm is pushed open and that will cause an ignition circuit to remain ON when its suppose to be OFF. That will cause excessive battery current draw in the sleep mode and KILL the battery in short order.

Something else that needs to be examined is the female pins in the ignition switch connector. If they are spread and make poor contact, they also can cause lower ignition switch output voltages. I have seen female pin contacts so loose that they heat up and melt the connector causing ignition switch failure on all outputs for that 12 VDC circuit.

Look at the picture provided. Two of the contacts in the black connector (the two on the inboard contacts) are spread apart and have signs of electrical arcing and carbon. They need to be cleaned and the tong needs to be bent so that it makes better contact with the male pin inside the switch
I will add this to my Ignition Switch post.:thumbs:

Attachment 48164990

HERE IS THE 99 c5 SCHEMATIC OF THE IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT :


Attachment 48164992

UPDATE 11 / 15/ 2023 IGNITION SWITCH CONNECTOR FEMALE PIN INSPECTION.

Along with ignition switch inspection repair and replacement, An Inspection shoule also be conducted on the TWO Car Harness Connectors that connect to the ignition switch. Over time, HEAT & Cold Cycles along with vibration causes the FEMALE PINS in all of our connectors to spread apart and make a poor connection with the associated MALE PIN inside the Ignition Switch.
If you have an ignition switch issue or your modules or the CAR just randomly shuts off, POOR CONNECTIONS inside the ignition switch connectors could be an issue.

Its a VERY COMMON ISSUE!

CONNECTOR INSPECTION:

- Disconnect the Negative battery terminal.
- Disconnect the Two Main Connectors that connect to the Ignition Switch.
- Inspect the Female Pins & The plastic wells that the pins fit into. Look for discoloration, Melted Plastic and pin deformation. The only war to absolutely insure that the female pins are not spread apart far enough to make a poor intermittent connection is to do a PIN PUSH PULL TEST. You need to find a spare male pin that is the exact same thickness as the male pin inside the Ignition Switch Connector Well.
I have used a Fuse to construct a TEST pin. Snap the Fuse inhalf. Use a file and sand paper to trim and shape the Fuse Spade pin to the correct thickness and width as the male pin inside of the ignition switch
- Once you have a large and small test pin, you can use them to test each harness connector FEMALE pin for proper fit tension. Its called a PIN PUSH PULL TEST.
- Insert the Male Test Pin into the Harness Female pin. There should be a noticeable snug insertion resistance and removable resistance when the pin is inserted and removed. IF, the male pin is loose or NO resistance to insertion or removal, yiou either need to replace that/those pins OR you can remove that/those pins and tighten up the little TONG that makes electrical contact with the male pin. NOTE! Make a diagram or take a picture of the wiring placement inside the connector/s if you disassemble the connector!!

Bill



Bill

:thumbs: good write up !

Bill this is awesome!!!

Both of my high mileage C5's have been a somewhat finicky when starting ever so often, now I know why

Ayeroff had this problem on his 2k vert a few month ago

Thanks for a great DYI write-up! I wonder what the dealership would charge for "new parts" and install? :ack:

Thanks Bill, for a great write up. :thumbs: This what I like most about CF.:cheers:

Wow Bill, This thread is AWESOME :willy:
I'm so happy I dropped the old switch in the mail to you!! Now I know what went wrong and many others can benefit from this!! :cheers:

You ROCK!!

Great write-up :thumbs:

Once I bent the movable contacts to add more contact pressure the switch has a more pronounced feel and the resistance readings were very good.
With the additional contact pressure there should be less contact arcing and deformation from heating. Hell,,,:rolleyes: ,, for the price of that switch and the 30 min it took to fix it, it was WELL WORTH the effort. It will also allow you to troubleshoot and see if that switch was the ROOT cause of the problem. I love free repairs!:D

If this helps ONE person it was well worth the effort.

The next thing that I want to do is make a detailed list of the what each contact in the switch goes to and what symptoms/ faults are seen when that contact fails!:thumbs:



BC

TTT for those that have not seen the post.

BC

Fantastic write up Bill! I saved this one to a file. Thank you! :thumbs:

Ha Bill,

Excellent analysis and documentation!

Did you also get the lock cylinder? If so what does it look like?
I'm thinking that's the part that seems bad on my spring back past the "On" position??

What do you think?

Nope! I just got the electrical portion of the switch. Once I tightened up the contact arms, the switch has a very nice precise feel.

The ON to crank and crank back to ON action is spring loaded and mine returns right back to the ON position. That spring is located in the section of the switch below where I was working. It too is able to be separated but I did not separate it. It seemed to be working fine

I do not believe that the lock cylinder has any positioning springs in it.

I have Never had one of those apart yet.

Saved.....
 

Thanks Bill.....

Bill.........aren't you just dying to find out what's underneath the switch contacts???

:willy:
This is one more awesome writeup that needs to be moved to the sticky list!

Once again thank you Bill for your willingness to help us out :thumbs: :cheers:

Great post! May explain my intermittent starting problem. I remove the key, jiggle the wheel a little, release and redepress the clutch, and that usually cures the ill. Faulty contacts on the ignition switch makes sense.

Bill,

Again, thank you very much! :cheers:

What Do You Figure A Repair Like That Would Cost At The Dealer???

What a guy ! The man deserves an award for all this stuff. Thank you once again Bill for the time you take with the detailed fixes you post.
This one had no better timing as the car started really acting goofy lately such as dying for no reason. Key on and gauges would not sweep as normal and more. I was about to order a new switch and spotted this post. Just finished pulling the thing and sure enough pitted/nasty conacts. I used one of my wifes disposable emory boards (nail file thingy) cut down to fit and cleaned them up. Bent the arms of the conacts for greater pressure just you suggested and viola like new!
I also went one more step and removed the key pellet contact piece in the front of the lock cylinder just out of curiosity. It is a clear plastic piece housing two spring contacts which press against the pellet when inserted which does not look servicable (not sure if pressed together or glued?) I did monitor the action of the key with a vom and wiggle tested with no intermitent opens.
Time will tell if all is well. Thanks again Bill, you made my day. Tom. :thumbs:

Tom

Thanks for the good words. I still need to add in some more data. Hopefully I be able to after I finish all my projects/

BC

Where is the ignition switch located? This might be IT (evil laugh) .. my electrical gremlin that has been hounding me for months!!

:lolg: :lol: Its right behind the thing that you stick your key in every morning!:D The key cylinder is inside that switch. :thumbs: You need to remove the close out panel from under the dash and the center console cover! There it be!!:thumbs: :)

Hope this helps.

BC

Bill, Thnkx for your reply. I was told that the ignition switch might be attached to the steering column and a PITA to get to :o Some of us here on the Forum are working very hard to learn from the elite group of experts such as you :D. You are my hero :thumbs: and using your posted instructions I hope to add another success story to this post, hopefully promoting it to sticky status one day.

I want to thank you for your post on the ignition switch repair. I can't tell you how much it helped in tracking down the source of the dreaded "service traction control and active handling" The codes were P1571,P1689,C1277 and IPC & SDM U1040 also cleared was B0432 rear defog ckt. I would have never suspected the switch without you taking the time to figure it out and then to take the time to post your repair procedure in detail. I replaced my switch (ordered from Gene) and then checked the old switch and found 3 burned contacts. All the codes have cleared and not returned. My guess that these switches are the source of a lot of the C5's electrical gremlins. By the way mine is an 01 with 70k and a daily driver and that adds up to a lot of cycles on the switch. My hats off to you Bill, thank you so much for all your help :thumbs: :thumbs: Ron R.

I am ready to remove and clean the contacts on my ignition switch. Are there any precautions to be taken before disconnecting and when connecting the ignition switch on my 98-coupe? I am worried about the anti-theft alarm kicking in and disabling the car. Any advice would be good :cheers:

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! Disconnect the NEGATIVE battery cable from the battery before you remove ANY electronics and when your done reconnect it, and then clear and DTCs that may have popped up during the reconnect. Retorque the battery terminals to 11 ft/lbs for 97-2003 C5's

BC

:party: ANOTHER SUCCESS STORY :party:

Found the worst electrical gremlin hiding in my ignition switch. Took me in all 2 hours, from start to finish using Bill's instructions, and all codes are gone.

I've circled the failing contacts ..

Attachment 48164521

Attachment 48164522

and the final result

Attachment 48164523

Time for a chilled beer and some spicy peanuts :cheers: Bill I am having another in your name .. you are my hero!!

BC hits another one outta the park! Looks like "Sticky" material to me!

If we are taking votes for a sticky status on this post, I am IN.

I spent close to $800 (replacing shocks, using F45 sims, labor) till I found that the problem was the d**n ignition switch, which cost me nothing to fix, thanks to BC's post. I did endup losing my F45 shocks which were all good to begin with. I would have ended up shelling more $$$'s had it not been for this post .. now I can use the money saved to buy me some mod goodies :thumbs:

Bump this up! I am having a similar problem here and took the time to check my switch thoroughly today. See post #7 especially:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1991852

My advice is to follow these instructions to the letter. It is a very simple task. I'm honestly ashamed to admit that I almost didn't take the time to recondition this switch!

switch
 

Bill,

I have just started to have intermittent issues related to starting, shutting off etc.

Your info has probably saved me untold hours of time plus frustration.

Thanks so much for your detailed information.

J.R.

ttt because the info here is priceless! :thumbs:

Just did this fix on my 2000 convertible. I have a little over 68,000 miles on it and the contact looked just like the pictures above.

This is why the forum is a great place to go for help.

Excellent. Hope this post keeps helping people!:thumbs: :flag:

In an effort to help other people with their WEIRD electrical issues, I'm bumping this post TTT and also linking this MAGNIFICENT and VERY INFORMATIVE post generated by another talented and truly amazing forum member MIKER (Mike)

It details how to repair the Headlight Switch (multifunction switch) in excellent detail.

The combination of these two self repairs will save us TONs of cash!!!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...adlight+switch

Ttt

What a great post Bill

I just hope I never need to use it

Fantastic info:cheers:

About $280, including parts and labor...And that's not including the tow to the dealership...:o

Thanks Bill!:thumbs:

No problem. Im seeing more and more ignition switch issues. There are some really strange issues when the contacts go bad!

BC

Bill sorry I haven't gotten back to you, I have done the switch thing, relay replacements, chassis ground thing, checked out the battery seems OK, will load test tomorrow. I cleared the following codes Sunday:


BO-RFA U1096H
U1064H
U1016H


Just checked for codes and those same three are back after taking the wife to dinner and a movie!


p.s. After 23 years together I don't expect to get lucky tonite after the dinner and a movie thing!



Kent

didn't solve any of my issues, but I did have burnt contacts as Bill showed, so I probaly got to it before it was a problem, and it was a easy fix, good write up

I've been frustated,,my Z06 starts sometimes. I've tried cleaning the contacts but I still have problems starting it. The key is vey loose in the lock....I have a heavy key chain, maybe that's the problem.

Bingo! The key cylinder was not designed to support a lot of weight.

Do you think I should replace the cylinder? Can I reuse my keys or do I need new ones as well?:bigears

:iagree: Heavy crap hanging off the ignition key will GREATLY accelerate wear/tear on the lock cylinder assembly. Especially on a fairly stiffly sprung car like a Corvette.

Add all the Autocross events and a lot of track-time I've put about 200,000 miles of wear on it.:ack:

So Bill should I replace it?

Bill

the write up was "out of the park". I have what I believe to be a switch problem because I have the security light on 95% of the time and a strange need to switch a key to the spare to stop the car from cutting the engine. If one key starts the engine and cuts out I switch to the other key and everytime is fine. It is not that one key is bad because just the opposite key start up can be used and the same results are experienced. The problem is not all the time but seems to be increasing. My car is a 98 coupe and I wonder what I need to do to limit my fault search to the switch.

Thanks

Just have the ignition key and fob on the keychain and I would assume you will be fine. If not you will have to replace it.

kg54trains

The Innition Switch for Our C5's has THREE parts:

- The electrical switch part which I detail how to fix.

- The mechanical part of the switch (behind the electrical part) that has the cams in it that open and close the electrical contacts and a spring that returns the switch to the run position after you go to start.

- The VATS switch module which contains a set of silver plated contacts which contact the resistor pellet on your key. The module has two wires that connect to the harness and connect to the BCM.

It is possible for those contacts to get dirty or even become weak and not make proper contact on the pellet. Having a 5 lb key chain really stresses that module and the key switch.

Bill

Bill, once again you come to the rescue! I hear GM wants to add you to their payroll so you will stop helping out Vette Forum members from getting hosed. LOL, just kidding. I want to thank you for the time you have taken to investigate and solve the problem, not to mention taking the time to sitdown and write this article to help out your Vette brothers!

:cheers:

Man,,,,I wish that were true! Wouldnt that be cool. My luck, they would stick me in the Cobalt Department!:lol::rolleyes:

I forgot to include the automatic corvettes to my breakdown of the switch.

They have a brake release cable that connects to their switch.

Attachment 48162093

Here is the picture of the VATS module on the switch. I went out and disassembled my car for this pic:

Attachment 48162094

Attachment 48162095

JUST KIDDING!:D

Bill

:lurk: The car's unusable as it is:ack: Thank you to everyone for their input.:cheers:

I would just disassemble it and clean and adjust it. Save the cash for cool stuff. It's fun. C5 bonding!!! If you disassembel it and it all botched up, then you will know that you need to lay out the cash.

You will be very surprised how much better the electrical functions on your car will be.

Bill

My C5 is having the same issues, we've cleaned the contacts as you recommended but still "Security" light comes on. What other things should we be looking at?

ttt for this



http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2145828

Clean ALL the under hood grounds. ESPECIALLY G-101 and G-102. make sure that you completely dissemble the ground connector plugs.


BC

Thanks Bill! :cheers:

TTT for all of you that may not have seen this post.

BC

ttt

HOLY SH*T BATMAN ---> Bill Curlee is the MAN!! I posted my problem Directly to him, He responded, Said it was the "Ignition Switch" AND He was RIGHT!!! I followed the instructions on This Thread. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...tion+c5+switch

Put it all back together and BLAMO!! The Car instantlly came to life.. Cleared all Codes and so far so GOOD!! THANK YOU BILL CURLEE!! I OWE YOU MORE THAN A BEER!! I Also Owe thanks to Jet-Jock, TOQUE, HomeWrecker and dgrant3830. I cannot Believe I spent $600 Dollars at the Dealership for NOTHING!! I'm going to drive to the Dealership tomarrow morning and tell them how BAD a TECH they have and I cannot Believe they let him work on the new ZR1's.. .. I learned a lesson too! Ask the Forum and FIX it your Self.. Here are some Pictures of my Repair.


Attachment 48161867

Some of the Parts and the Ignition Switch on the Table.
Attachment 48161868

This is a Picture of the Inside of the rear of the Ignition Switch, The Contacts behind those Prongs were Black. And I do mean BLACK. Sanded all the Contacts with 400 gritt, used some Di-Electric Grease and put it all back together.
Attachment 48161869
Thanks Again BILL CURLEE, I OWE YOU A STEAK DINNER and DRINKS!!
GOD I LOVE THIS FORUM!

Heres a link to the entire slvrzo6 post. Ive included it because its an interesting story (dealer technicians are not always compentent) and it contains some good indications for a defective ignition switch.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ht=bill+curlee

BC

If you "THINK" you have an ignition switch issue, you can use a volt meter and measure the output of the ignition switch.

There are TWO voltages that power the critical modules in our cars. One is "HOT AT ALL TIMES" and the other is "HOT in ACC and ON". When you turn the ignition switch to ON, you can read the fuses listed below and you should see exactly what the battery puts out. If the electrical contacts inside the switch are burnt, there will be resistance in the circuit and the voltage output of the switch will be lower or even zero.

On top of the fuses are two small holes that you can insert pin point meter leads into and read that fuse terminal. MAKE SURE to read both holes. If the fuse happens to be blown, only the battery side will have voltage on it.:thumbs:

Heres another troubleshooting tip: If you read across the fuse; If it good, you should read ZERO VOLTS!:yesnod: If its bad, you will read BATTERY VOLTAGE.

Heres the schematic for the START /Crank side of the switch:

Attachment 48161266

Heres the schematic for the IPC and the voltage that you see on the IPC Volt Meter:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...peedometer.gif


Here are the fuses powered by the "HOT in ACC and ON". part of the switch:

Ok,,,here are the fuses that your going to check:

Under Hood Fuse Center

ENG ING1 FUSE# 19

INJR 2 FUSE# 18

THROTCONT FUSE# 17

INJR 1 FUSE# 22

PCM FUSE# 16

F/PMP FUSE# 13

Instrument Panel Fuse block

BTSI BU Fuse# 21
BCM 13 Fuse# 22
IPC Fuse# 19

Check the VOLTAGE on these fuses when the ignition is in the ON position. There should be battery voltage on these fuses.


Another ignition switch troubleshooting aid is; If the engine will run when you HOLD the ignition switch to the CRANK position but dies when you release the key, the switch could be at fault.

Bill

Thank you Bill for the discovery. I too performed this easy fix and it allowed me to rid my Z06 from a pesky Security issue and no start condition that was intermittent and a pain to deal with. My contacts looked exactly like the pictures you posted on my 28K mile 2001. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Oh yeah, one more thing.....WHY ISN'T THIS A STICKY!!!!!! OR ADDED TO THE DIY Thread.:toetap:

Bill, Can You help
 

I accidentally broke my key off in the ign switch. In trying to fish it out I damaged the security contacts for the resistor on the key. I bought a whole second hand ign switch from ebay and installed it and everything worked except the starting. like turning the key all the way with the clutch out, I then took the contact and wires off of the new unit and put them on my old unit but before installing I checked resistance and it read 2.36 or key number 8. I cannot figure what happened, can u shed some lite on my situation. Is there some kind of dance routine like turn left blinker on, press gas pedal 3 times while pushing the windshield washer and turning the steering 183 degrees from north? hehehehehhe

Mike

mike4man@gt.rr.com

I can give u a call if necessary.

Just out of curiousity how much is a new ignition switch? Anyone know?

:willy::willy::willy::willy::willy: Man,,,sounds like you have the WRONG resistor pellet. Go to the dealer with your VIN and ID and they will be able to tell you what resistance the pellet should be. If you remove the ignition switch and then the tumbler,,you can pop the remainder of the key out fairly easy. Then just take it to a locksmith and have themm cut you the correct key. What DTCs are you throwing See if your getting a VATS security DTC.

If you have the correct key and resistance pellet, if the VATS system is working correctly, it should start fine.

Bill

Bill

Well, as of last Friday I have had the same symptoms as "slvrz06" was having with his ignition switch in his 2001 ZO6. My car is an 02 ZO6 and upon trying to start it last Friday morning I began getting all kinds of weird DIC warnings, low voltage, charging system fault, reduced power mode, service traction control system, also had flickering of the guage needles as they made their sweep across the guage faces and could hear what sounded like relays clicking in the passenger footwell.

After searching and coming across Bill Curlee's posts about the ignition switch fix, I decided to give it a go. Pulled the switch out and disassembled it and sure enough I had two contacts that were burnt pretty black. Sanded them down with some 800 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper and cleaned it up with alcohol. Reasembled the switch and reinstalled it in the car.

The car fired up and did not throw any codes at all. I started and killed it several times this evening, and so far so good. It got dark on me this evening, so I will finish putting all of the trim and console and shifter plate assembly together tomorrow evening.


Big thanks to Bill Curlee for his time that he graciously dedicates to this forum. I also want to thank "slvrz06" who answered a couple of questions about disassembly of the ignition switch.
THANKS GUYS and Thanks Corvetteforum

Floyd

About $60 from the vendor on the forum-I just replaced mine 2 days ago... :thumbs:

great thread!!!!!!

This answered all my questions except one. How do I get the key tumbler out? I have a good used ignition key assembly but I want to keep my original key.:cool: Thanks for all the info and photos.

Oh I got it. Now the tumbler is out.

!!!wow!!!
 

For two years I have fought and dealt with this problem!! When I looked it up on here I decided I would give it a shot and take a leeson from Bill. Well to make a long story short one and a half hours later my car was runnung beautifully. Thanks Bill!:cheers:

:lol::D This issue effects a lot of c5 owners.... Sooner or later, they will figure it out! Easy and free fix! Glad you were successful!

Well done!

BC

Bill you have helped so many people. I have a spare ign switch and plan to install it before I have all the problems that are due at 199,500 miles.:cool:

Great thread! (although, I'm not able to see the pics?...maybe my browser filter is catching them?)

Maybe you're talking about the email delivery of this forum. The forum delivers them in plaintext to your email account; you'll have to go to the actual website to view the images/smileys/etc. Not sure if there's a knob one can toggle to get them to deliver 'em in HTML format...

Nope, I'm reading the Forum via IE......probably my "filter" here at work.....I'll check it tonight from home....

My work e-mail will NOT let me access some web sites like UTUBE, Photobucket. MSN-E MAIL etc.... All my pictures are on photobucket so, I dont see them either when Im at work.:thumbs: Some people attach their files somehow and Im able to view them.

Bill C

I did this procedure to my switch a couple months ago. Mine looked exactly like the one in Bill's pics right down the placement of the carbonization on the specific terminals. I took a dremel with a wire brush, got everything sparkly, light coating of silicone grease on it all, and then bent in a bit more pressure on the contact arms. :thumbs: It takes significantly more pressure to turn the key now, but I like it that way.

Thanks Bill......I'm certain this is the problem!.....I'll check it again tonight from home.....

Thanks to everyone for the speedy replies/suggestions

TTT

More exposure for a problem thats getting more and more prevalent.:thumbs:

BC

....Bump

Thank You Bill
 

Add me to this list of people who owe Bill a beer. I have been having this issue for the past 3 years and the dealer could not find the issue. A few hours of labor and I am good as new. :cheers:

This forum is outstanding.......


Kelly Cook
Showmevette
St. Louis, Missouri

Bill it seems I may have this same issue...

Takes more than a few clicks to start the car and when it does turn over my gauge cluster only throws up a Check Gauge icon and a "low voltage" warning message for the first few seconds and then it goes away, everything is normal from then on.

The KICKER- If I have been driving the car for a good amount of time though and I shut it off and restart within a few minutes it fires up quick and no funny messages...

On top of that my MPG #s resets each time that happens. Im guessing if it was the battery that it would have went out by now? (symptoms have been going on for about a month now)

My car is a 99 Hardtop :cheers:

Had the same issue on my 18k car with the "low Voltage" illuminating, it was the battery.

You got the clicks so you need to fix your ignition switch!

Keeping this Thread Alive... Seeing more people with this Problem..

It will never hurt to service your ignition switch, I can NOT always say its the switch that is at fault. Good troubleshooting procedures will lead you in the correct direction. Measuring the ignition on voltages at the fuses that the switch provides and look for a voltage drop/loss. If you see a voltage drop, the switch is at fault.

There are several issues that can cause your starter NOT to crank the engine. Most of the time its a bad/compromised connection in the HIGH CURRENT portion of the electrical circuit. The eyelets and wiring on the starter solenoid are always PRIME SUSPECTS when it comes to starting issues. GM C5 starter solenoids are well known to cause NO CRANK issues. Theres a problem inside the solenoid that causes a high resistance issue and a RAP with something heavy will most of the time allow the starter to work. I had that very issue. I had an insulated 3 foot rod in my trunk that I would snake down between the header tubes and whack the starter and WHAM,,,, it would start.

You can swap out the solenoid for approx $50. A new starter cost 3 times that much. :thumbs: Yes you need to remove the starter to replace the solenoid. ;)

I thought I would throw this out since I see 5-6 starter / cranking post a week.

Bill Curlee

Today I got the P1518 code along with the Reducede Engine Power and Charge Sytem Fault warning. Before I read this post, I thought it was my fuel pump. Does this switch stop the pump for activating? I see how to refurbish the switch; however, I need a thread on how to remove and replace the switch.

Help
 

My switch is 90% removed. I do not know how to remove the cable nor the key cylinder. Someone please help.

I have an intermittent problem I think could be the ignition but not sure:
When I insert the key and turn to acc everything works fine but when I turn to start the gauges all go off and the car won't start. If I hold the key in the start position and jiggle it and turn it very slowly but keep it in the start position it will start. I have had this happen 3-4 times but it always starts. Could it be the ignition or maybe solenoid or just a ground problem? Any info would be appreciated:cheers:

As much as I advertise the Ignition switch as causing issues,,,,yours sounds more like a bad splenoid or Theft Deterrent Relay (TDR)

The next time that it wont start, turn the key to start and hold it there. Then lift the clutch peddel off the clutch safety switch and then press it back down. When you do this,,,listen closley for a CLICK from the TDR in the passengers foot well. If the relay CLICKS,,,that rules out the ignition switch.

Check the tightness and connection cleanliness of the wires on the solenoid. If that doesnt fix it, change the solenoid.

BC

Great post Bill. Always trying to help the rest of us out. Thank you so much. If you ever find your self in Houston I'll buy you a cold one! :cheers:

I just applied Bill's recommendations to my switch and it cured all my problems. I would turn the key to on and hear constant clicking from passenger area, and dash would flash all kind of errors. When I got it apart, it looked almost exactly like the one in his picks with at least two contacts severely burned.

Still early to say no problems, but where 2 out of 3 times it would fail before, I've had 15 successful starts with zero failures!

Thanks Bill

GOOD JOB!! Thank you for posting your results in this post! Gotta keep it going so others will see it :thumbs:

Another success story - Thank you Bill!
 

Well I too fell victim of the flickering dask lights, low voltage, reduced power, Service Traction Control, and so on.
I have a 2001 Z06
The problem progressively got worse which was a good thing because I was able to take my voltmeter and take voltage readings while my dash lights were flickering, relays chattering and my DIC displayed 5.88v. I checked my fuel pump relay voltage and sure enough it read 5.88v while my voltage at the battery was 12.53v. As a result, I took my ignition switch apart and this is what I found.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i.../Z06Switch.jpg
and the other piece
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i.../SwitchZ06.jpg

Cleaned everything up and all is good. After, I cycled the ignition switch a dozen times and it worked everytime. Before it would crap out 3 out of 5 times and in the end it crap out 1 for 1 :(

Bill's instructions worked perfectly and now all is good.

:cheers:

Taking out ignition switch
 

Guys, this is awesome but I am a newby and have a question. Can anyone post how to get to the ignition switch, what to take off, where the screws are etc?

Terry
www.hybridz.org

Hi on Automatic's that have the brake cable all you have to do is put your key in the cylinder and turn it. It relases the brake cable.

To get the cylinder out, just turn the whole switch over. You will see a small hole about the size of a pencils eraser. Just use a small screw driver and press in the lock table in that hole. Just lightly pull the cylinder will come out. ;)