0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

This is something that everyone needs to read, if you are racing your car or just taking it to car shows your engine oil is the life blood that keeps your car running.

The more aggressive your setup, or the harder you drive your car, the oil you use becomes even more important.

Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.

Doing testing and research with oil companies, Comp Cams, and also with some of our partners in the turbo production the newer 'EPA approved' oils are reducing the anti wear additive packages more so every year and are increasing the amount of detergents in the oil. While this might sound good to keep the inside of your engine clean it is not helping on keeping the oil protecting like it should.


That is why it is more important now more so than ever for those of you tracking your car, installing bigger cams, turbo's and superchargers that you run an oil that will hold up and protect your investment.

With any of our cam kits we highly suggest the use of a quality oil with a high content of Zinc and Phosphorus. For those racing the car, a racing oil should be used. Do keep in mind most racing oils are 100% detergent free and will need to be changed frequently.

Some oils to use would be RedLine, Amsoil, Joe Gibb, Brad Penn, Valvoline VR1 series.


Further Reading...
http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/trainingcenter/tech/streetoils.htm

http://www.redlineoil.com/techinfo.aspx

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf

lucky131969

..and what are the results of analysis? If you guys produced on the low side (150 kits per year), that's 24,000 lifters over the last 10 years...so 10 lifters over that time (while not acceptable), is small. What have been the common denominators? Are you suggesting this is all attributed to oil?

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

I am saying this is mainly an oiling issue. Not only have we seen it, but those who grind our cams (Comp Cams) have seen many more failures. Combined with what we have seen, what Comp has seen and others in the industry we can now say for sure that the common denominator is the oil and the changes in the new EPA approved oils.

Put it this way, it is important enough that they held a summit meeting at SEMA before the show on the upcoming changes and are doing another one this year.

lucky131969

Was there any data presented at SEMA? Any analysis for public viewing?

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

I was not there for the meeting, but I'll see if I can find some more details. I know a lot of what they went over, is in the Joe Gibbs article.

lucky131969

Thanks!

punz

I use Amsoil Signiture now, maybe going with Amsoil Z Rod in the future. http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrt.aspx

C5Natie

A reason why Ive been using Rotella T6 in my LS3, 1257ppm of zinc. I used regular Rotella T for a long time in my built LS1. Then, I switched to Castrol Edge for a while. After a few track days I found a damaged lifter that began a domino effect ending in a destroyed cam lobe. Im not blaming the oil, not enough proof, but switching back to Rotella has given me a piece of mind. Its a good synthetic, handle high heat very well and has shown me very good oil pressure at all temps so far.

Rotella T6 Blackstone Labs test results..
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=206230

vettenuts

I just went to Amsoil Z-Rod 10W30 for this very reason, but hadn't seen the articles. I have seen a several reports of pushrod end wear failures and other highly loaded component wear issues, enough to make me look into this and switch from the German Castrol I was running. Many of the head/cam setups are running very high valve spring forces as compared to the stock setup.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Only thing you have to watch for with the Diesel oils is that some of them can lead to premature cat failure. Perfectly fine for no cat cars.

C5Natie

^^
No cats here!

ipuig

The Gibbs article is very light on technical information. Was there any analysis done to correlate the lifter failures to a reduction in extreme pressure additives?

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Another tech article released by Joe Gibb today.

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...tech_sheet.pdf

vettenuts

Frankly, I would rather replace Cats then cause internal motor damage. I think that is a fair trade-off, but this is just my opinion. Also, not sure of the mileage most folks drive their car, but on my the Cats will last a long time because I don't put a lot of miles on per year.

Thanks for posting this by the way

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Let's look a bit more in depth on why these 'micro brew' oils are so much better than say a normal Mobile 1.

Within the U.S. right now you may think you only have the choice of conventional and synthetic engine oils to choose from. While that is partially true the base stock that the oil is produced from can also radically change the properties of the oil itself, synthetic or not.

Within the Synthetic oils you have three classifications, Group 3, Group 4, and Group 5 oils. Group 3 oils are re-refined petroleum products and are the least expensive until recently they could not be classified as synthetic. Group 4 oils are PAO oils (Poly-Alpha-Olefine) and they are a synthesized petroleum product that has better protection against heat, oxidation, and better flow at low temperatures. The draw back to this oil is they need plenty of oil pressure to provide an effective protection film on the parts they protect. Both Group 3 and Group 4 oils are mineral based.

Lastly we have the Group 5 oils, which are Ester based (diester, polyoesters, and complex esters) which are vegetable and animal based

Red Line and Motul engine oils are currently the only two engine oils you can obtain that start from a Synthetic Ester base. This Ester base forms and electro-chemical bond with your engine components so there is an even less chance of metal to metal contact on cold start up or low oil pressure conditions. This bond is something that the Group 3 and Group 4 oils do not have because of their base material make up even if they have a higher level of ZDDP additives. The other big benefit of an Ester based oil is that they have very little in the way of deposits if they do burn under extreme conditions so there is no build up inside hot engine parts, and this is especially important for those running turbos on their cars.


Further reading on Esters
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...94#Post1252272

FRITZM

Are you then recommending that one should follow, and use, the Gibb's oils and instructions on break-in when doing a head/cam swap with new springs, valves and lifters?

ztheusa

Sounds like something is wrong with your cam kits, not the oil.

cptinjak

??? Based on what???

Jack

KrispyZ06

c5chines

Sounds more like a basic change in lift and spring rates have jacked the pressures over the ability of the parts to maintain oil film. There is only so much pressure that a bearing can support without driving away the oil film.It's all downhill from there.Oil quality may help slightly,but so would backing off the spring pressures and maintaining cam/lifter/rocker geometry closer to the original design.