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Old 08-03-2013, 11:53 AM   #241
acat1234
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Thanks Bill for such fantastic advice and instructions. I am a "newbie" with a 2001 c5 coupe. Will a faulty ignition switch cause the starter to "drag" after starting? Also, will the faulty switch allow the fuel pump to continue running (slightly) making the engine attempt to run after turning switch off?

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Old 08-03-2013, 01:39 PM   #242
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I would say that you have an Ignition Switch issue. The fuel pump cant run without the ignition switch being ON or power coming from it. If its still running after you go to OFF,, the switch has to be the issue and staying ON

You could also have a starter solenoid or Theft Deterrent Relay issue if your starter is still running in run or off.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:57 PM   #243
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It does not happen every time I start the car, but if there is a harsh (not sharp or banging) metallic noise coming from the front of the car, the car will continue to try and run when I turn the ignition switch off. If the car starts and there is no noise, then the car shuts down perfectly when the switch is turned off.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:52 PM   #244
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You need to have someone help you track down and pin point that noise to a specific component / part That will help us get to the bottom of the issue

Have someone start and stop the engine and when the noise happens, track it down.

Its most likely a relay.

Bill
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:44 PM   #245
acat1234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee View Post
You need to have someone help you track down and pin point that noise to a specific component / part That will help us get to the bottom of the issue

Have someone start and stop the engine and when the noise happens, track it down.

Its most likely a relay.

Bill
Is there a diagram of relay locations and description of what functions they affect? Also, is there a "how-to" video showing removal of various parts for ignition switch removal?

Thanks again for all the valuable information!!
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:57 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acat1234 View Post
Is there a diagram of relay locations and description of what functions they affect? Also, is there a "how-to" video showing removal of various parts for ignition switch removal?

Thanks again for all the valuable information!!
The relays are mostly inside the fuse boxes and the legend diagram is in the fuse box cover. If you need to know more about the relays, I suggest that you purchase the three volume set of factory service manuals.

It has a detailed description of each system and how the system works and a detailed electrical diagram.

If you don't want the service manual set, purchase a DVD service manual set form someone on here that has some for sale. It is GM SPO SI (Service Information)

Thats where all the schematics that you see come from.

I don't know of any videos for switch repair.

BC
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:04 AM   #247
David Shiel
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Default Bill, one more question and

hopefully the last before proceeding.
In reading the removal procedure, it looks like we need to drop the passenger side glove box and disconnect the air bag plug. Is that really necessary, since the car will be depowered at the negative battery terminal?
Thanks,
Dave


PS: I am ordering a service manual set. Should hae done that a year ago.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:36 PM   #248
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I have never removed the air bag plug but,,,,,,,,, that just me.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:34 AM   #249
ebatters
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Once last week I tried starting as usual and got dash lights but no crank..I repeated attempt 4 times - same thing. On the 5th try, the only diff was letting the car roll back a few feet in neutral, everything worked as normal..and no repeats since. Was this a warning to fix/replace the ignition switch? 01 CP M6
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:25 PM   #250
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Default Good to Know !!

Thank you for posting this awsomely documented article. I am having that low power - issue - and will definetly look at the ignition switch next ...
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:32 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebatters View Post
Once last week I tried starting as usual and got dash lights but no crank..I repeated attempt 4 times - same thing. On the 5th try, the only diff was letting the car roll back a few feet in neutral, everything worked as normal..and no repeats since. Was this a warning to fix/replace the ignition switch? 01 CP M6
NOTE!!!!


When the starter fails to CRANK the engine,,, there are numerous possible reasons. Some throw DTCs and most do not!

Before you pin the problem on ONE COMPONENT, you have to do some home work.

1, Is the battery fully Charged and in proper working order?

2. Is the IPC SECURITY LIGHT "ON" or "FLASHING" ?

3. Are the battery cable bolts properly torqued to the battery terminals?? 97-03 C5 require 11 ft/lbs for proper terminal connection.

4. Is the Theft Deterrent Relay Starter Solenoid (PURPLE WIRE) "HOT" when you accomplish ALL the steps to crank the engine?

4a. It the starter solenoid "PURPLE" wire has battery voltage on the wire when you attempt to crank the engine and it fails to spin the starter, HIT THE SOLENOID with something solid while someone holds the ignition in the CRANK position and see if the starter cranks the engine. If it does, you have a defective starter solenoid OR loose connections on the solenoid.

Heres the schematic that you need to troubleshoot the issue:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:13 PM   #252
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Here is the schematic representation of the Ignition switch inputs and outputs:

See the Starter Circuit for more detail:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:02 PM   #253
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Thanks.....what is the significance of the flashing or "On" Security light in this scenario?
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:20 PM   #254
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IF,, the car thinks it has a security issue, it will NOT crank. Unless the light is OUT when the key is in the ignition, the car goes in to theft mode and will not crank. It also locks out the system for THREE MINUTES if you try to crank it when its flashing or on.

BC
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:21 PM   #255
ebatters
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Thanks again really helpful
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:17 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee View Post
If you "THINK" you have an ignition switch issue, you can use a volt meter and measure the output of the ignition switch.

There are TWO voltages that power the critical modules in our cars. One is "HOT AT ALL TIMES" and the other is "HOT in ACC and ON". When you turn the ignition switch to ON, you can read the fuses listed below and you should see exactly what the battery puts out. If the electrical contacts inside the switch are burnt, there will be resistance in the circuit and the voltage output of the switch will be lower or even zero.

On top of the fuses are two small holes that you can insert pin point meter leads into and read that fuse terminal. MAKE SURE to read both holes. If the fuse happens to be blown, only the battery side will have voltage on it.

Heres another troubleshooting tip: If you read across the fuse; If it good, you should read ZERO VOLTS! If its bad, you will read BATTERY VOLTAGE.
Ok,,,here are the fuses that your going to check:

Under Hood Fuse Center
ENG ING1 FUSE# 19
INJR 2 FUSE# 18
THROTCONT FUSE# 17
INJR 1 FUSE# 22
PCM FUSE# 16
F/PMP FUSE# 13

Instrument Panel Fuse block
BTSI BU Fuse# 21
BCM 13 Fuse# 22
IPC Fuse# 19

Check the VOLTAGE on these fuses when the ignition is in the ON position. There should be battery voltage on these fuses.

Another ignition switch troubleshooting aid is; If the engine will run when you HOLD the ignition switch to the CRANK position but dies when you release the key, the switch could be at fault.

Bill
Bill, I have been struggling with a 'Pull Key and Wait 10secs' message for a while now (started after I installed the CLB). Been working with 8VETTE7 and going thru a number of checks. Currently finishing up the ground checks, but all are looking very good so far (1997 but with 10K miles). I conducted the fuse tests as you prescribed, and sure enough, fuses 13, 19, 21 and 22 have no voltage when the key is in the ON position. Is this a certain indicator that the ignition switch is at fault here? Asking before I start tearing up the dash to get this replaced. Much appreciated.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:53 PM   #257
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If you have thge KEY ON,,,, and theres no voltage,,,,,,, GET CRACKEN!!

Please post what you find! You can back probe the switch harness connector and see if theres voltage on each of the output wires:

See post #252 and it has a schematic and shows what EACH switch powers fuse wise!
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:56 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Curlee View Post
If you have thge KEY ON,,,, and theres no voltage,,,,,,, GET CRACKEN!!

Please post what you find! You can back probe the switch harness connector and see if theres voltage on each of the output wires:

See post #252 and it has a schematic and shows what EACH switch powers fuse wise!
You got it! I will be working the full weekend on this my 'vette to-do' list. I will definitely get back to you, probably Sunday.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:35 AM   #259
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Default Ignition swich is in. Only problem

was the short wire on the gas door switch plug. Getting it reconnected was nasty, so I added 6 inches of wire to it and then it was a snap! Anyone else have this issue?
Next time I have to remove the console, it will be a breeze.

The contacts were a little black, but not pitted. Will have to see if this solves anything. The total install took only 90 minutes. Learned a lot in the process. Bill's instructions were awesome.
Dave
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #260
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As long as this thread is near the top of the forum, I also should give a huge thanks to Bill for taking the time to post this info. This is yet another of his endeavors which helped me avoid copious spending on the wrong stuff.

Thanks Bill!

:Thumbs: :Cheers:
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:04 PM
 
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